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Generation Sith

2011-06-02T12:05:00.000-07:00

You've probably already read the reviews, so I won't belabor the point: Lucas finally proved that the magic hadn't left the Star Wars universe after all, and gave his fans what they were looking for- a dark, violent lightsaber-clash of a movie that would bring the series to a heart-wrenching completion. Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith is not only the best of the prequels, but might just be the best film of the entire series.
(Warning: some spoilers ahead, read at your own risk!)
Yes, the dialogue is still cheesy- it's Star Wars, after all. Some of the 3d still leaves a bit to be desired, and some of the characters are all but thrown away.
But the intensity of Anakin/Vader's fall from grace, the final confrontations with Palpatine, Windu, Obi-Wan, and Yoda, the destruction of the temple, and Padme's death all lend the film a tragic element that all the others- including the original trilogy- have lacked. By the end, I'd shed a few tears- for Anakin, Obi-Wan, Padme, and the doomed Republic.
That's not to say that the movie is entirely humorless- the opening scenes manage to be quite amusing, without trying to rely on comic-relief characters (such as the notorious Jar-Jar Binks, who only makes two brief appearances and never says a word- thank God)… though it's not long before the entire movie descends into gripping, oppressive darkness. This isn't a kids' movie- Lucas takes the gloves off, at last. As the master said, "This has always been a dark story. It's about a man's descent into hell. That's pretty serious stuff. … I could pull it back a little bit, but I don't really want to."
Most importantly, though, the movie manages to seamlessly tie up almost all the loose ends of the first two, for the transition into Episode IV- a fine achievement in of itself. And unlike Episodes I and II, there isn't much here that doesn't work- it all hangs together like the Millenium Falcon; it may be as elegant as a trash compactor in places, but it can still do the Kessel Run in under six parsecs.
But enough gushing (Kevin Smith already has that task well covered). We all know why Star Wars is relevant to GenSit- it is a tale of cosmic spirituality gone horribly, horribly wrong.
The Jedi Code—and a lesson in history
"There is no emotion; there is peace.
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no passion; there is serenity.
There is no death; there is the Force."
-From the Jedi Code, the teachings of Master Odan-Urr
The four core teachings of Master Odan-Urr are at the core of what it is to be a Jedi. They are, in essence, identical to the teachings of Buddhist or Christian ascesis (which makes it unsuprising that two books have recently been released citing the paralells between Jedi teaching and these two traditions). At heart, however, these teachings are both the foundation of the Jedi Order's stability- and it's greatest weakness.
In the Star Wars universe, everyone is sensitive to the force to one degree or another (with the exception of droids, of course). Most people can hardly feel the force at all, let alone call upon it. Others, such as Han Solo, have an unconscious "attunement" with the force that manifests itself as inordinately good luck and a tendency to happen upon fortuitious synchronicities, yet lack an ability to call upon the force at will. Others- a highly evolved mystical elite present among all the races of the galaxy, are so sensitive to the force that they can learn how to use it- to Control (modify their bodily functions, ala advanced yogis and martial artists), Sense (learn the will of the force, so that they might become more in tune with their surroundings, and the whole universe), and Alter (modify the environment outside their body, most commonly through telekinesis). A handful of mystics on inhabited worlds throughout the galaxy called upon and developed these abilities for millenia, though it would not be until the discovery of hyperdrive and the founding of the Galactic Republic that these mystics would formally become the Jedi Order. Beginning as a wandering band of mystical seekers and heroic vigilantes, the order would, over the course of it's 25,000 year existence, would transform into the judicial arm of the Republic and, through strict adherence to the Jedi code, safeguard democracy. An institution that started with wandering masters and small cadres of students would be formalized, with temples, training ships, strict dogmas, and massive screening programs for perspective candidates- by the time of the Clone Wars, most worlds in the Republic screened students for force sensitivity at a young age, though only a tiny fraction of training candidates would ever be accepted as Knights of the Jedi Order (most would never even begin training, being of no significant ability, or would be shunted into various non-millitant Jedi corps, such as ExplorCorps, MediCorps, and AgriCorps). Thus, the Jedi became ossified by bureaucracy and politics- and lost their way. Waiting in the shadows, their ancient enemy knew that the time had come to strike.
In the early days of the Jedi Order, a group of Jedi came to the conclusion that the Jedi Code was too restrictive- that by exploring their passions, Jedi could achieve even greater powers- including the power to create and destroy life at will. This lead to a schism in the Jedi Order- those who remained true to the Code drove the rebels into exile in the far regions of the Galaxy, where the schismatic Jedi encountered a race of primitive near-humans ruled by sorcerer-kings who explored the same powers they did. This race called themselves the Sith. Wielding superior technology and superior skill in the force, the schismatic Jedi conquered these people and set themselves up as godlike rulers. In the dark of the remote galaxy, the Sith Empire was forged. For twenty thousand years they prepared for their return- training ever more skilled warriors, probing the deepest secrets of the force for new sorceries, and constructing new weapons. Eventually, a few young Jedi explorers would stumble upon this terrible cancer growing on the edge of the galaxy- and plunge the Republic into chaos.
Four millenia of warfare, and the near destruction of the Jedi Order and the Republic itself, would follow the encounter with the Sith (for those who want to know the story, take a look at the Knights of the Old Republic series of videogames- they cover this period quite well). Eventually, however, the final clash between the Jedi and Sith at the battle of Ruusan annihilated the last of the Sith Lords, finally bringing the madness to an end. Little did the Jedi know, however, that one Sith Lord had escaped- Darth Bane. This master would go into hiding, and create the rule of two- from this point forward, only two Sith Lords would exist at one time- a master, and an apprentice. In darkness, they would plot their revenge. For 1,000 years, the Republic- and the Jedi- knew a golden age of power, wealth, scientific knowledge, and uncontested mastery over the galaxy.
Which brings us to the story that everyone knows- the Sith took control of the Republic, destroyed the Jedi Order, and crushed the galaxy beneath it's iron fist, until a few bold rebels brought down the last of the Sith, freeing the galaxy from their tyranny forever. But is that all that is going on here?
Jedi, Sith, and Cosmic Evolution
"The Galaxy will live in tranquility if certain matters are a bit overlooked or left unheard."
-Master Odan-Urr
One ongoing theme througout the Star Wars universe is the theme of bringing "balance to the force"- the task that Anakin Skywalker, the legendary "chosen one", was supposed to accomplish- and did- in the only way possible. Painfully, bloodily, and destructively, he, like a manifestation of Yamantaka, cut through the order that was holding back cosmic evolution. He annihilated the Jedi and the Sith- which sadly enough, was the only way the galaxy could ever evolve and move past the dead end it had become locked in.
The Galactic Republic- and Empire- was a basket case. For hundreds of thousands of years, life had failed to evolve. Technological progress had slowed to a crawl (Coruscant was completely urbanized over one hundred millenia before the Clone Wars)- other than a few technological refinements here or there, there had been little advancement millenia. No serious genetic modification was brooked by a civilization caught up in stultifying regulations and taboos, all enforced by the Jedi, guardians of all that was "natural". The most evolved creatures in the Galaxy- the Jedi Masters- had made themselves into guardians of tranquility, not the vanguard of evolution. Stopping change was their prerogative. No advancement- technological, genetic, or spiritual- was possible under the Jedi regime. The galaxy had ground to a halt- no transpersonal evolution could occur, as the Jedi had declared it their task to prevent the Galaxy itself from waking up and achieving self-consciousness. Not unlike modern Christianity, a promising spiritual system had become so stuck in mythic-rational dogmas and doctrines that it could not be the force it needed to be.
The Sith, on the other hand, represent a twisted form of evolutionary Ascent- a confused one, similiar to Nazism. Human racial superiority (alluded to in the books- and obviously in Episodes IV-VI- and notice how the Clone Wars gave the Sith a convenient way to destroy all the major infrastructure of non-human power, such as the Trade Federation?), a fixation on the advancement of new technologies of destruction (Death Stars, Star Destroyers, AT-AT Walkers), imperial power ideology, and Sith sorcery and alchemy all represent a twisted form of evolutionary Ascent, all informed by Ken Wilber's "Pre/Trans Fallacy"- this "evolution" is headed straight into the ground, as it is focused on the aggrandizement of the ego and prerational passions. If the Jedi represent modern religion, the Sith represent secular and pseudo-mystical forms of totalitarianism- Nazism, Communism, Fascism, Asian Millitarism. Both are dead ends- one because it stops itself and the galaxy from evolving, and the other because it "evolves" itself into the grave.
By manifesting Anakin Skywalker, the force decided to destroy both dead ends- it would restore balance to the force by "rebooting" the Jedi Order and destroying the Sith. But while Anakin was to bring balance to the Force, another Jedi, one who had remained true to the spirit of the Jedi, would bring about the next stage of galactic evolution- Qui-Gon Jinn. At the end of Revenge of the Sith, Yoda reveals that Qui-Gon has come back from the realm of the dead, and brought the secret of immortality. Could this be the beginning of something new- a way out of the contradictions the galaxy has caught itself in?
We can only speculate- the story ends with the restoration of the balance, and the novels set after Return of the Jedi were not informed by the events of the prequels, nor do they take the story in this interesting direction (they more or less just recapitulate the same story we've already seen, in different fashions- first with Grand Admiral Thrawn, then with a reborn Empire, then with the Yuzzhan Vong). But it leaves one wondering- how will balance come to our Force?
In any event, if there is a bone in your body that loves Star Wars, Episode III is worth seeing- and pondering.

Babylon 5 and the Science Fiction Grail Quest

2011-05-17T07:27:00.000-07:00

By Marc DiPaolo

Ray Bradbury, one of the greatest science fiction writers of the century, is essentially a Christian mystic wrestling with issues of faith and reason in a widely secular age, critic Thomas D. Calreson reveals in Understanding Contemporary American Science Fiction. To underscore this point, Calreson cites a scene in Bradbury’s “-And the Moon Still Be Bright” in which one character

“voices the anxieties so much a part of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries when he condemns both Darwin and Freud not only for removing humanity from nature but also for destroying religious faith…. This sense of loss lies at the heart of much of [Bradbury’s] best fiction” (Calreson 53).

Far from being mourned, the apparent eclipsing of the Judeo-Christian faith systems is celebrated by science fiction television shows such as Star Trek, which views organized religion as the establishment’s chief tool for the oppression of the individual. This theme is most evident in the episode “Who Mourns for Adonis?” in which Captain Kirk discovers that Apollo was not a real god but an alien posing as one, narcissistically vying for human adoration. Kirk immediately informs the ersatz-god that earthlings have evolved beyond the need to be led by divine example, forcing Apollo to recognize that humanity has outgrown him and all that he stands for.

As confident as Kirk is when he makes this pronouncement to Apollo, it remains to be seen at the end of the episode if humanity really can survive an existence without myths. Viewers might easily be left wondering if the independence Kirk has gained for humanity is enough to replace what has been lost.

Also, the message emerges as somewhat hypocritical when one considers that Star Trek often mines the Bible for inspiration, most notably when it retells the sacrifice of Abraham in “City on the Edge of Forever” and when it tackles the expulsion from Eden in “This Side of Paradise.” In these and other instances, the series seems to validate the very myths it attempts to move beyond by retelling them – keeping them alive and relevant for a modern audience.

In Myth, Laurence Coupe argues that society needs mythology as a tool to understand itself, and that civilizations will continually reinvent mythology to keep it fresh, building new myths on the shoulders of old ones to keep the mythical tradition alive and carry it into the future. Whether science fiction is religious, as is the works of Ray Bradbury, or secular, like Star Trek, the genre nevertheless remains an ideal arena in which to alter or build upon the old myths and legends in the manner that Coupe describes. Such is the case because, as critic Gary K. Wolfe notes, science fiction is capable of exploring “the mythical aspects of reason itself, specifically of scientific reasoning. Science, one might well argue, is the real myth of our culture, and science fiction is merely the codification and expression of beliefs in that myth” (Wolfe 5).

While Star Trek: The Next Generation is widely considered the successor to the original Star Trek series, especially since Gene Roddenberry produced both shows, it emerges as far too unabashed in its support of a utopian, collectivist society to dovetail thematically with the first serial’s staunchly individualistic ideology. As the proper thematic heir apparent to Star Trek, J. Michael Straczynski’s Babylon 5 continued its tradition of refashioning the Judeo-Christian legends of Western Society into a post-modern, science fiction myth that invited viewers to question and reinvent their core beliefs in time for the new millenium.

Although Babylon 5’s fans understand it primarily as a retelling of J. R. R. Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings, the influences on the series are numerous, and the show is best viewed as a re-examination of the significance of the legend of King Arthur and the Quest for the Grail.

Unlike previous incarnations of the Arthurian tale, many of which were used to validate the Feudal hierarchy or the authority of the Roman Catholic Church, Straczynski’s television epic is an essentially secular tale that wrests mythology out of the hands of the establishment and bestows it upon the individual. For Straczynski, a confirmed agnostic, myth is only useful so long as it serves the individual, and the moment it becomes controlling it must be destroyed. This is a view Straczynski also extends to everything from organized religion, to government, to family – all these things are meant to serve and the moment they cease to serve they must be abolished, regenerated, and reclaimed.

Before the exact relationship between Babylon 5 and Arthurian Romance can be established, it will be necessary to briefly summarize the premise of the series. The story begins in 2258, ten years after the human race was nearly extinguished in a war against the alien Minbari. The two races have since reconciled and founded a cosmic United Nations called Babylon 5 in an effort to prevent another disastrous interstellar war and various other alien races have been quick to join in the peaceful effort. This fictional scenario so closely resembles the years following World War II and the formation of the United Nations that the series takes on immediate twentieth-century relevance.

Straczynski cleverly gives the series added pertinence by patterning the various alien races featured in the series after recognizable human cultures: the Narn are an essentially a downtrodden, zealous Semitic people; the Centauri, as members of a fading imperialist power, echo the fallen British Empire; the Minbari, weighed down by centuries of religious and military corruption, represent the Medieval Catholic Church at its most hypocritical, and, finally, the Vorlons and the Shadows are all-powerful alien races that, like Star Trek’s Apollo, were mistaken for angels and devils when they visited Earth millennia ago.

While Straczynski has problems with the personal codes of each individual character that comprises the ensemble human and alien cast, he grants all their beliefs enough respect so that viewers are forced to consider the virtues and limitations of every modern political and religious perspective the show allegorically represents. With prophets and atheists, nationalists and expatriates all demonstrating heroic and villainous traits, the series often compelled viewers to consider both the ugly side of their own ideologies and the beautiful side of ideologies they formerly viewed as utterly repellent.

Gary K. Wolfe suggests that science fiction aficionados “invest a certain part of their own fate” in the genre’s ideology because it provides them “with mythic reflections on themselves and of their potential environments, and shows them what courses of action are possible both on a personal and cosmic scale” (Wolfe 3-4). Certainly, Babylon 5’s poetic take on modern cultural pluralism does indeed offer “mythic reflections” on a large body of potential viewers, some of whom might see themselves in the Minbari, or in the Narn, or, if Straczynski was completely successful in his narrative endeavor, in the Arthurian hero, John Sheridan.

Three episodes of the series deal with Arthurian themes explicitly – “The Grail” depicts a futuristic priest name Aldous Gaijic who has spent his life in search of the cup of Christ; “A Late Delivery From Avalon” has the Babylon 5 crew struggling to convince a deranged man that he is not, in fact, King Arthur returned from the dead, and “Sleeping in Light,” the final episode, shows the series’ hero John Sheridan taken up into the science fiction equivalent of Avalon. These three episodes are significant enough that they place a gloss on the entire series, casting Babylon 5 as a futuristic Camelot, Sheridan as Arthur, and the Vorlon Ambassador Kosh as Merlin.

“Grail,” the only episode of the series I will discuss that was not written by Straczynski himself, was penned by Christy Marx, designer of Sierra’s Conquests of Camelot: Quest for the Grail computer game. It begins when the human Aldous Gaijic arrives on Babylon 5 in search of “the sacred vessel of regeneration known also as the cup of the goddess or, by its more common name, the Holy Grail.” Actor David Warner’s performance as Gaijic is assured and unapologetic throughout the episode, and he makes it clear that the character is neither insane, nor will he be deterred by the widespread wall of skepticism blocking his path.

Station Commander Jeffrey Sinclair, for one, is skeptical about Gaijic’s presence on the station, despite Ambassador Delenn’s insistence that the Minbari view Gaijic as a religious and philosophical hero.

Sinclair: [bemused] “The Holy Grail? As in King Arthur? The Last Supper?”

Gaijic: “It has many names, but only one promise: the regeneration and salvation of human kind. My order has been searching for the Grail for Millenium. Since there’s nowhere else left on earth to search, I’ve taken the search outward to other worlds.”

In a Godless universe, it is absurd enough in itself that Gaijic would consider spending his life in search of a magical object that, if it ever existed and ever really did grace Christ’s table, has been lost for around 2225 years. That he would look for it off of Earth, the only place it could logically be, brings the insanity of the quest to a new dimension. To compound the problem, there is little way Gaijic could have any knowledge of the Grail’s real appearance considering that it has taken on so many various different forms in the history of Grail literature.

The Grail is often a communion Chalice used at the Last Supper, usually golden and jeweled, most recently scene in this form in the comic book Camelot 3000 and the movie Excalibur, although it appears as a poor, wooden carpenter’s cup in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

And yet it is not always a chalice, nor is it necessarily always associated with the Last Supper. The Grail is a platter for costly meats in Helinandus; a vaguely described, luminous object in Crestien; a jeweled stone for Wolfram von Eschenbach; a cauldron in Celtic fertility myth, and first a tabernacle, then a crystal monstrance in Diu Crone. Lizette Andrews Fisher notes, in The Mystic Vision in the Grail Legend and in The Divine Comedy, that the physical appearance of the Grail is, indeed, ever-changing, “though it is noticeable that the romancers are apparently quite unconcerned about it.” And yet, she says, all these visions of the Grail are thematically linked, “Always it has marvelous qualities, always it may come and go mysteriously, always it is associated with a miraculous supply of food and drink” (Fisher 55).

When one considers how problematic any real-life Grail quest would be, “Grail” emerges as highly unorthodox in its attempt to portray such a lunatic endeavor in a heroic light, especially in a secular science fiction context. For example, when Sinclair apologetically explains to Delenn that the Grail is a mere myth back on Earth, little more than “a nice story to tell your kids,” and he stops just short of suggesting that Gaijic is wasting his life in a fruitless search, Delenn’s response shames him.

Delenn: “How sad. He is a holy man. A true seeker. Among my people, a true seeker is treated with the utmost reverence and respect. It doesn’t matter that his Grail may or may not exist. What matters is that he strives for the perfection of his soul and the salvation of his race and that he has never wavered or lost faith.”

On the surface, this appears to be a strong departure from all traditional views of the Grail quest, which describe the Grail, or graal, as a source of eternal salvation, as an embodiment of the mystery of transubstantiation, or as a miraculous source of healing and sustenance. However, the concept of the irrelevance of the Grail’s existence may be a reflection of a theme presented in Chretien de Troyes’ Conte du Graal. According to Brigitte Cazalles, author of The Unholy Grail, The intratextual function of the graal [Grail] is not a “holy” dish, but an empty container bereft of intrinsic value. There, in a vacuity that discloses the function of the symbol as a receptacle whose meaning resides entirely with its holders and beholders, lies the enigma of Chretien’s Grail (Cazalles 227).

Considering Cazalles’ argument in the context of Delenn’s speech, Gaijic emerges as a true hero out of Chretien’s knight-errant mold since he is able to fill the empty receptacle of the imagined Grail with deeply significant spiritual meaning. However, Delenn also suggests that Gaijic’s quest is not merely personal, but has a broader significance for “the salvation of his race.” This is a more unusual statement, since one might assume that a real Grail, on the order of Tennyson’s – which “if a man could touch or see it, he was heal’d at once,/By faith, of all his ills” (Tennyson 207) – must exist for Gaijic’s quest to have such a broad effect.

Still, by projecting the image of a serene and contented knight-errant, Gaijic is encouraging others to find meaning in their own lives, inspiring them to find in themselves the power to fill an empty receptacle like the legendary Grail with significance.

Sinclair, who is himself a Tennyson devotee and a pious-but-pragmatic Roman Catholic, instinctively grasps Delenn’s wise interpretation of the quest’s value and embraces it instantly.

Sinclair: [demeanor softens into a smile] “I wish him luck. He’s probably the only true seeker we have.” Delenn: “Then perhaps you don’t know yourself as well as you think.”

Since, during the first season of the series, Sinclair is clearly the stand-in for the viewers, Delenn is challenging the television audience at large to not only sympathize with Gaijic’s odd perspective, but join him on his quest. By doing so, she links Gaijic’s quest with Sinclair’s quest with the viewer’s quest, and gives credence to Wolfe’s theory that science fiction fans invest themselves in science fiction tales because the tales invite fans to do just that.

This theory of viewer or reader identification with the fictional questing hero is not limited to science fiction narratives, but extends to all romance, as Northrop Frye contends in The Secular Scripture:

As we have seen, the message of all romance is de te fabula: the story is about you; and it is the reader who is responsible for the way literature functions, both socially and individually (Frye 186).

Gaijic’s quest takes him from the massive space station’s ritzy ambassadorial suites to the Down Below, where the homeless, the jobless, and the criminal element squat and forage for food. There he encounters Thomas Jordan, an engineer who worked on all five Babylon stations, earning the nickname “Jinxo” when the first four were all sabotaged shortly after he went on vacation leave.

Fearing he carries The Curse of the Babylon Project within him, Jinxo refuses to ever set foot off Babylon 5, even when a loan shark named Deuce has placed a death sentence on his head. Gaijic is impressed with Jinxo’s messianic streak and takes Jinxo under protective custody, repeatedly placing his own life in danger by fighting off Deuce’s henchmen.

Jinxo and Gaijic have an affinity for one another since they function, effectively, as two sides of the same coin. Both men are defined by their religious beliefs – Jinxo in a negative way, Gaijic in a positive way. Jinxo represents religion at its worst, since his superstition, which is bolstered by a frightening foundation of half-truth, has made him a prisoner of fear and has limited his freedom to the point that it is endangering his life.

Gaijic, however, is not a prisoner of his beliefs, but is fully in control of his own destiny and uses his mythic religion as a form of empowerment that gives him hope for the future, purpose in life, and consolation for all his pain. Gaijic represents religion at its best, religion that serves and liberates the individual. This religion is the only kind of religion that Babylon 5 respects. Jinxo’s brand of religion, which curtails personal freedom, is one of the series’ principle targets of censure.

Despite an obvious affection for Gaijic, Jinxo reveals he is just as skeptical of Gaijic’s quest as others and he wonders aloud how Gaijic can find an object if even its physical appearance remains a mystery. “Sometimes it’s the search that counts, not the finding,” is Gaijic’s reply, again echoing the theme that the questing knight-errant gives the quest its real meaning, not the object being sought. Hence the reason why so many women who are rescued at the end of tales of knightly valor have no real personality to speak of, and who often demonstrate no love for the knight in return.

For example, the prince who has found inner resources of courage and strength through rescuing Sleeping Beauty rarely cares that, in many versions of the tale, the awakened heroine feels only gratitude for him, not love, as Bruno Bettelheim indicates in The Uses of Enchantment. Consider then that, while the theme is actually traditional, it translates well into an existential society like modern America, which questions the notion that anything – be it princess, Grail, or quest – can have meaning in and of itself. When Jinxo presses Gaijic to explain the rationale behind the quest, Gaijic replies in highly personal terms. Years ago, when Gaijic was working as an accountant for a major Earth corporation, he “lived in a world of numbers – clean, smooth, logical, precise” and never would have dreamed of pursuing such a fantastic quest. Later, when a freak accident killed his wife and daughter but spared him, Gaijic could no longer find meaning in his life. “The numbers didn’t add up any more,” so he left his job “believing that there had to be something, some reason why [he] had been spared.” That was when Gaijic met the last living Grail-Seeker, who saw Gaijic as “a man of infinite promise and goodness.” When the Grail seeker was dying, he passed on the staff and the quest to Gaijic. “And now I’m the last,” Gaijic explains at the end of his narrative. “But the numbers add up again.”

This sensitive argument utterly repudiates any notion that a scientific, logical worldview that leaves no room for the individual to embrace myth or magic is an adequate or emotionally fulfilling life philosophy. For the episode’s scriptwriter Christy Marx, as for Laurence Coupe, humans need myth to survive.

Before long, Deuce makes another attempt on Jinxo’s life, and Gaijic takes a bullet meant for his friend. Deuce is arrested immediately afterwards, but it soon becomes apparent that Gaijic is going to die.

Gaijic’s final words betray his genuine faith in the Grail; it is more than a personal quest for him and he grieves that his passing will bring to an end the religious order that sought it.

“My search is over. I’ve failed. No one left. No one.” Of course it comes as no surprise to any astute viewer that this is Jinxo’s cue to intercede. “Yes there is. I’ll do it. I’ll find the grail. I swear I’ll find it.” Gaijic passes his staff onto Jinxo, who reclaims his birth-name, Thomas, and repudiates his inappropriately pessimistic nickname.

The passing of the quest from one seeker to another is another theme borrowed from past Arthurian romances, most notably Idylls of the King. In Tennyson’s poem, Percival’s penitent nun sister, who first had vision of the Grail, looked into Percival’s eyes, and, in this fashion, Percival inherits the quest (Tennyson 208). In another instance, a sweet maiden passed belief on through her eyes, “and as she spake/She sent the deathless passion in her eyes/ Thro’ him, and made him hers, and laid her mind/On him, and he believed in her belief” (Tennyson 210).

As Jinxo stares into Gaijic’s dying eyes and inherits the Grail quest in the manner of Percival before him, Jinxo has exchanged a destructive religion for an empowering one. Since the name Jinxo is inextricably linked to an inferior personal myth that he has outgrown in favor of a superior personal myth, he rejects that nickname and all that it implies. When he re-baptizes himself Thomas, reclaiming his birth name, he is “crowned and mitered lord of himself,” finally free of oppressive despair like the fully empowered Pilgrim standing in the Garden of Eden in Dante’s Purgatorio (canto XXVII).

In Gaijic’s dying moments, his eyes widen and he gazes past Jinxo at something no one else in the room can perceive. “I see it, Thomas. The Grail.” Gaijic smiles, closes his eyes, and dies.

Like the end of Ingmar Bergman’s The Seventh Seal, in which viewers are allowed to decide for themselves whether or not the seer’s vision of the afterlife is genuine or merely a hallucination, this episode lets viewers determine on their own whether or not Gaijic’s death vision is real. This liberal attitude towards religion allows viewers more latitude in interpreting the meaning of the story, and produces a reflective mood that again places viewers at the center of the tale’s action.

Still, those who tend to favor a supernatural explanation of Gaijic’s death vision would find support for their interpretation in earlier accounts of the Grail quest, in which the questing knight only discovers the Grail upon his death. In the vulgate cycle and in Tennyson’s Idylls of the King, among other places, a knight may only be granted a vision of the Grail after braving the Siege Perilous, a chair that threatens instant death to all daring or foolish enough to sit upon it. In John Boorman’s film Excalibur, Percival twice sees the Grail when he is on the verge of death and only claims it when he surrenders to his end, sheds his armor, and is reborn out of a Lethe-like river. Also, Galahad is hungry for death in Malory’s Grail text, since the staunchly Christian Galahad knows that death will lead him to enlightenment:

“…Sir Galahad fell onto his knees and prayed long time to our lord, that at what time he asked he might pass out of this world. And so long he prayed til a voice said, ‘Sir Galahad, thou shalt have thy request, and when thou asketh the death of thy body, thou shalt have it, and then shalt thou have the life of thy soul.’…When my body is dead, my soul shall be in great joy to see the blessed trinity every day, and the majesty of our lord, jesu christ” (Vinaver 107).

By allowing the possibility of a death-time fulfillment of the Grail quest, Babylon 5 offers some hope for an end to the quest, but does not suggest that viewers should rely on this coming to pass. A recurring theme in episodes penned by Straczynski is one that suggests people only find meaning in life when they embrace the inevitability of their death. Those who spend all their time fleeing from death or investing too much in an afterlife are often too distracted from the business of living to determine what their life should mean and what they hope to accomplish before they die.

At the end of the “Grail” episode, Delenn again expressed her admiration for Gaijic to Sinclair, noting that he succeeded in his quest by discovering a reason for being, a reason for the existence of life in the universe, a reason that everyone is searching for. Shortly after this exchange, Jinxo departs the station bearing Gaijic’s staff, eager to begin his quest for the Grail by laughing off the Babylon curse and, at long last, claiming the faith he needs to leave the station.

This episode is echoed strikingly in terms of theme and plot in a third-season adventure called “A Late Delivery from Avalon,” by Straczynski. As in “Grail,” this episode starts with the arrival of a suspected madman, only this time the madman steps off of the space shuttle Asimov onto Babylon 5 dressed in chain mail and wields a sword which security hopes to confiscate.

“I am Arthur, son of Uther Pendragon and King of the Britons,” the lunatic yells. “No man takes Excalibur from me and lives.” Michael York’s portrayal of Arthur is anything but understated, as Arthur is obviously far more tormented than Gaijic, and is far more incensed by the suggestion that he might be mentally unhinged.

By this point in the series, the Babylon 5 crew has worked together to form a multiracial group of knights called the Rangers, whose principals of honor and social justice bear a striking resemblance to the knights of the Round Table. And so it was only appropriate that Marcus Cole, a British Ranger, was there to greet Arthur upon his return. Marcus, whose training included linguistic and philosophical combat, is the only one who knows how to speak Arthur’s language and calm the sword-wielding fanatic down.

(“The only way to understand the battle is to understand the language,” Cole had explained in the previous segment. “War is as much concept as execution.”)

Marcus: “Apologies my lord, we were not notified of your return. These people mean you no harm … please come with us, we’ll send word to Galahad and Lancelot.”

Arthur: “Galahad is dead! Lancelot is dead! Guinevere and Percival, even Mordred – all of them are dead. I have been gone a long time, but I’m not mad.”

Marcus: “Then set aside your sword, you’re among friends.”

Marcus’ sympathetic demeanor convinces Arthur to sheath the sword and to agree to a medical examination – an examination that is secretly meant to determine the phony Arthur’s true identity.

“Very well,” Arthur says. “I’ve been treated and prodded and healed by the nine sisters since the year of our lord five hundred and fifteen*. What is another healer after that?”

Although Dr. Franklin acknowledges that “there is enough historical evidence to suggest that there was a real person behind those [Arthur] stories,” he does not accept that the man in his sickbay is a living legend.

Dr. Franklin, however, argues that the man in his sickbay is not the real Arthur. “His speech patterns are too contemporary, his vocabulary is all wrong,” Franklin reports to Sheridan. “The question we should be asking is what made him tip over… What terrible thing could have happened to drive him back 1700 years into the past to find peace and meaning?”

Given that “Grail” has already mocked the inadequacy of the world of science and numbers that Franklin lives in – clean, smooth, logical, precise – it is certain that his approach to the situation, although understandable, would not bring the problem to an adequate resolution.

Frustrated, Arthur tries to prove his validity by recounting his final memories:

Arthur: “The last thing I remember is lying on the field of battle at Camlan, my brother Sir Bedivere had pulled me away from these peasants who were looting the bodies of my fallen knights. It was all King Meleagant’s fault. If he hadn’t sided with Mordred, with Lancelot out of the country … the old wound opened …. Oh, I was dying, three times I asked Bedivere to return Excalibur to the Lady of the Lake. By the time he finally did as I asked, it was almost too late. Then a barge appeared offshore with three queens and the nine sisters. They said that I would sleep for a time, but that I would return when I was most needed. I’m not sure how I came here, but if I am here now it is because I am most needed here and now.”

Aside from Meleagant – who is the villain of Chretien de Troyes’ Lancelot, or The Knight of the Cart and is a prince in that story, not a king – the rest of the details from this account are taken faithfully and directly from Sir Thomas Malory’s Le Morte Darthur*.

The similarities are indeed striking and simultaneously speak to Straczynski’s respect for the source material and to his attention to detail. The most significant detail that appears in both accounts is that an adder accidentally caused the battle.

Michael York’s Arthur is tormented by the knowledge that the battle might have been prevented had a knight not raised his sword to strike an adder (Wilhelm 565). The raised sword had been wrongly interpreted as a sign of aggression and the battle had been joined. The consequence was mass slaughter and devastation. This ironic twist of fate in Malory plagues the Arthur of Babylon 5, who continually refers to the adder and the resultant carnage, blaming himself for not preventing the misunderstanding and the ensuing battle.

Unwilling to remain locked up in sick bay, Arthur begins his exploration of Babylon 5 with the Down Below, and discovers that the criminal element have been preying on a poor widow, stealing her only photograph of her husband because it was housed in an expensive frame. Arthur is incensed by the indignity, and he makes a mental connection between the thieves and the scavengers who looted the bodies of the dead at Camlan. Seeing this as an opportunity to renew his quest for social justice, Arthur confronts the criminals and demands they return the picture. “What manner of men prey on the weak and the poor, stealing from old women? Cowards, I think!”

G’Kar, an alien whose sympathies have been with the underdog since his planet had been conquered by the Centauri, leaps instantly to Arthur’s aid and the two of them vanquish the criminals and return the picture to the grateful old woman. Celebrating the infancy of a new Camelot, Arthur and G’Kar get drunk together and talk of the joys of taking the side of good over evil.

Arthur: “It’s wrong for the strong to prey on the weak. That idea was at the very heart of the Round Table. To correct injustice, to promote a society of laws, not arms … That is the purpose which God and the crown have set before me…. You shall sit at my right hand at the new Round Table and you shall be known as Sir G’Kar, the Red Knight.”

Straczynski is making another subtle-yet-significant reference to previous Arthurian tales that characterize Sir Lancelot as the Red Knight, and those who understand the allusion are even more firmly convinced than casual viewers that G'Kar is indeed meant to be Arthur’s new second-in-command.

Again, here, like in “Grail,” the heroism and nobility which Straczynski grants Arthur invites viewers to not only relate to a madman, but to hope he succeeds in his mission, and perhaps even to want to embrace his quest in real life. It is highly subversive material by nature, undermining the kingly authority of science and logic, usurping it with romance and myth.

Meanwhile, Dr. Franklin has determined that Arthur is, in reality, David McIntyre, the gunnery sergeant on the Prometheus who fired the first shots of the Earth-Minbari War ten years before. It had been a cataclysmic misunderstanding. The Minbari ship had approached the Prometheus with gun ports open, a traditional sign of respect in Minbari culture that the Captain of the Prometheus wrongly interpreted as a threat. McIntyre obeyed his Captain’s order to attack first, and the shots he fired killed the Minbari leader Dukat. The presumably unwarranted attack provoked Delenn, then Dukat’s disciple, into such a fury that she ordered the complete extermination of every human in existence. Had Delenn’s passions not cooled, had she not realized that genocide was a loathsome goal and called off the Minbari attack on Earth at the Battle of the Line, the whole human race would have been extinguished as a result of a cultural misunderstanding.

After the war ended and the humans realized what had happened, a review board cleared McIntyre of all responsibility for starting the conflict. Still, he was never able to forgive himself, especially after he saw eighteen thousand humans butchered defending Earth in the Battle of the Line. To deal with his guilt, McIntyre had retreated into his Arthur persona, but the guilt remained. Instead of blaming himself for The Earth-Minbari War, which was begun when defenders misread the sign of a raised gun, McIntyre (as Arthur) blamed himself for the Battle of Camlan, which was begun when a defender misread the sign of a raised sword. Marcus begs Franklin not to shatter McIntyre’s happy illusion that he is Arthur, but Franklin is determined that emotional healing can only begin once the ugly truth is faced head on.

Franklin is assuming that McIntyre, like Jinxo, is misusing myth. He assumes that McIntyre is hiding from reality behind a mythic shield and assumes that the myth controls McIntyre’s actions, although both of these deductions are debatable. After all, the similarities between McIntyre’s real life experiences and the narrative elements of Arthurian myth are so thematically similar, that one can easily see McIntyre’s use of the Arthur persona as a reasonable means of coping with tragedy. This view is especially possible since McIntyre is both helping the unfortunate and actively seeking to exorcise his pain through the Arthur persona.

Franklin’s dilemma here is strikingly similar to the parental dilemma posed in Bettelheim’s essay, “The Child’s Need for Magic.”

From an adult point of view, and in terms of modern science, the answers which fairy stories offer are fantastic rather than true. As a matter of fact, these solutions seem so incorrect to many adults – who have become estranged from the ways in which young people experience the world – that they object to exposing children to such “false” information. However, realistic explanations are usually incomprehensible to children, because they lack the abstract understanding required to make sense of them. While giving a scientifically correct answer makes adults think they have clarified things for the child, such explanations leave the child confused, overpowered, and intellectually defeated. A child can derive security only from the conviction that he understands now what has baffled him before – never from being given facts which create new uncertainties….

To tell a child that the earth floats in space, attracted by gravity into circling around the sun, but that the earth doesn’t fall into the sun as a child falls to the ground, seems very confusing to him.… More important, to feel secure on earth, the child needs to believe that this world is held firmly in place. Therefore he finds a better explanation in a myth that tells him the earth rests on a turtle, or is held up by a giant (Bettelheim 48-49).

Bettelheim’s argument, although given in the context of a child psychologist advising parents on child rearing, is no different than Coupe’s argument for the necessity of myth in society. Straczynski demonstrates that he adheres to the Coupe-Bettelheim school of myth and fairy tales in “A Late Delivery from Avalon” when he has Franklin’s attempt to restore McIntyre to reality, metaphorically killing Bettelheim’s turtle earth-bearer and replacing it with an unfriendly theory of gravity, tragedy ensues.

When Franklin tells McIntyre the story of the Prometheus, McIntyre tries to avoid facing the truth by falling heavily back on his mythical autobiography. “Prometheus? There were Romans still living in my country whose family married Britons and they carried legends from Greece. Prometheus brought fire from the Gods.” But Franklin, unrelenting, drives the point home. McIntyre is assaulted by images of Earth spaceships exploding during the Battle of the Line, but he shouts continually about Camlan. “I was responsible for my knights. Their armor was not strong enough to protect them. Their horses! Their horses were on fire! The old wound. No, the pain will never go away. I must return Excalibur to the Lady of the Lake. I didn’t know. We didn’t know! The bodies of the slain, drifting like stars.”

Finally, just as McIntyre’s shouts raise to a fever pitch, he hallucinates that Mordred has stabbed him from behind and falls into a coma.

A disconsolate Franklin realized that he failed to heal McIntyre because he failed to understand the language of McIntyre’s pain. He didn’t know that the only cure for a man mired in a world of mythical pain was to provide an end to the myth. So he and Marcus determine that the Lady of the Lake is indeed needed to bring Arthur out of his coma, and the only appropriate Lady of the Lake on Babylon 5 is Delenn. When Delenn arrives at Arthur’s side, he opens his eyes and sees her take Excalibur – the symbol of all his guilt – from his grasp. When Delenn clasps her hand in his and smiles down on him, she is playing two roles – as the Lady of the Lake she is forgiving Arthur for Camlan, as Delenn she is forgiving McIntyre for the death of her mentor Dukat and the Earth-Minbari war.

McIntyre recovers his health and his sanity afterwards, and is able to leave his guilt behind and start anew. His first step is to embrace G’Kar’s downtrodden people by joining their fight against the Centauri oppressors. G’Kar approves of the decision and likes McIntyre as much as he likes Arthur:

G’kar: “My people will trust him well, doctor. He will be welcomed and put into a position of authority in the resistance. He has good ideas about raising up those in need, about organizing others into something better and nobler than they had been before. We are in great need of such ideas and such men.”

Franklin: “A new Round Table? I’ve heard worse ideas.”

McIntyre: “I’m healed. Soul and body mended. One journey has ended, another beckons.”

This resolution has two significant facets to it. The first is that McIntyre is mentally healthier at the end of the episode than he was at the beginning. The second is, no sooner has he been freed of his mythic Arthurian prison, than he decides to readopt an Arthurian persona of his own free will. Perhaps the best gloss on this theme can be found in a religious Christian work, A Grief Observed, in which C. S. Lewis meditated on his loss of faith following the death of his wife, Joy. Lewis posited that the Christian God is never impressed with a faith that is arrogant, weak, or imprisoning – what he calls a “house of cards” faith.

He further posited that God will always react to such corrupt faiths by destroying the house of cards, forcing the foolish believer into a period of atheism until such time that the believer is able to rebuild the faith from scratch, this time with a stronger, healthier foundation. Since Joy’s death utterly destroyed Lewis’ faith, he reasoned that his faith was simply no real faith at all, and build on a shabby foundation.

If my house had collapsed at one blow, it was a house of cards…. Indeed, it’s likely enough that what I shall call, if it happens, a ‘restoration of faith’ will turn out to be only one more house of cards. And I shan’t know whether it is or not until the next blow comes – when, say, a fatal disease is diagnosed in my body too, or war breaks out, or I have ruined myself… (Lewis 42, 44).

McIntyre’s faith in Arthurian Romance manifested itself in an unhealthy fashion since it compelled him to believe falsely that he was King Arthur returned from Avalon. Therefore, it was a house of cards faith that needed to be destroyed by a benevolent God figure – or, in this case, science and myth (represented by Franklin and Marcus) working together on a common goal – so that McIntyre could be set free.

However, since the Arthurian myth had intrinsic value, and still had the potential to transform McIntyre’s tragic past into a more positive future, McIntyre decided to instantly begin rebuilding his faith, hoping this time that it would not be a house of cards. So, by the end of the episode, McIntyre is no longer controlled by the myth, but is in full command of both the Arthur romance and his own future.

As Frye explains in The Secular Scripture, reclaiming romance in the present as a means of understanding the past is only half the task. The other part of the task is transforming the romance into a beacon that will light the traveler’s way into the future. Fortunately, McIntyre appears to have done just this.

Marcus Cole expresses regret at McIntyre’s departure, which surprises Franklin, since McIntyre wasn’t the real Arthur. Marcus’ response, though facetious, is actually a superb gloss on the series as a whole. He gestures to the enigmatic Ambassador Kosh, who had chosen that moment to appear at the docking bay, and says grandly, “Next you’ll be saying he isn’t Merlin.” Franklin isn’t amused, but Cole presses on with the connection:

Cole: Merlin was a great teacher, you know. They say he aged backwards and that was how he was able to foretell the future, by remembering. Which means, he came from the future. Maybe he had Arthur form the Round Table by remembering us. We’re forming one of our own, after all, which makes you Percival, I’m Galahad – him being sinless and all – Sheridan as Arthur, Ivanova perhaps Gawain, I think we both know who Mordred is, so the question is, who’s Morgana Le Fey?”

Although Marcus himself admits that the parallels between Arthurian Romance and Babylon 5 are not perfect – Morgana Le Fey is, indeed, missing – the parallels are there and they are striking. Robert de Boron’s prose Merlin, written in 1200, begins with the defeated denizens of Hell lamenting that Christ had rescued the Old Testament heroes from Hell after his crucifixion and passed on the Grail, a cup of enormous magical power, to Joseph of Arimathea (Rosenberg 306-307, 316).

In retaliation, the demons planned Merlin’s conception, hoping he will act as their prophet and savior and granting him unlimited knowledge of the past. God, attempting to thwart the plan, grants Merlin knowledge of the future in the hopes that Merlin, now caught between conflicting impulses of good and evil, would side with good. Indeed, Merlin ultimately sides with God over Satan, ordering King Uther Pendragon to create the Round Table as a third incarnation of the table the disciples ate at in the Last Supper – the second incarnation having been created by Joseph of Arimathea.

Now, if Kosh is Merlin as Marcus suggested, then one might easily infer that the “5” at the end of the station’s name not only stands for the fifth Babylon station, but the fifth of the Grail banquet tables (the fourth being the United Nations, which is oft referred to on Babylon 5 with nostalgic reverence).

That being the case, Gaijic’s assumption that the Grail is secretly on Babylon 5 no longer seems quite so absurd. This argument is more easily supported later on in the series, when it is revealed that Kosh was secretly the one behind the development of the station in the first place, although he allowed the humans and the Minbari to think it was all their doing. And in Babylon 5, as in Merlin, the Round Table is not immediately presided over by Merlin’s champion – just as Uther heads the table for a brief time before Arthur, Commander Jeffrey Sinclair holds brief sway over Babylon 5 before Captain John Sheridan takes over.

Under both commanders Babylon 5 makes great strides in settling sectarian conflict and forging personal friendships between the Ambassadors, the member races are soon divided by a massive interstellar war orchestrated by the god-like “First Ones” – the Vorlons and the Shadows. Sheridan discovers during the course of the series that the First Ones are immortals who ruled the galaxy before the younger races – the humans, Minbari, Centauri, and Narn – were even created.

As the main villains of the series, the Vorlons and the Shadows vie for the right to direct the destiny of all sentient life in the universe, and their apocalyptic war threatens to engulf humanity and all the “younger races” caught in the middle. The point of contention is ideological and again reflects the epic confrontation between Christianity and Darwinism that has inspired so many science fiction tales. The utopian Vorlons, as Lords of Order, have worked since Creation to nurture the evolution of life in the universe by creating peaceful religions that encouraged obedience and teamwork on the various worlds. The Shadows, the Lords of Chaos, believed evolution was best served by conflict, and caused wars for the benefit of their charges, unconcerned any time a weaker race was wiped out since only the strong deserved to survive.

Morden, the human spokesman for the Shadows and the series’ closest equivalent to Mordred, tries to win Sheridan over to the Shadows’ side by claiming that humanity was at its most progressive when it was following the philosophy of Chaos over the philosophy of Order.

Morden: “Think about it, Captain. Look at the long history of human struggle. Six thousand years of wars, bloodshed, atrocities beyond description, but look at what came out of all of that. We’ve gone to the stars, split the atom, written sonnets. We wouldn’t have come this far if we hadn’t been at each other’s throats, evolving our way up, inch by inch.”

Sitting beside Morden, Sheridan’s wife, Anna (played by Boxleitner’s real-life wife Melissa Gilbert), furthers Morden’s argument, criticizing her husband for keeping Camelot’s ideals alive in Babylon 5.

Anna: “Everything depends on getting the other races to fight each other, to create conflict in order to promote growth and evolution. By getting them to cooperate, you are working against that goal.”

Although Morden has neither married nor seduced Anna sexually, he acts here as Shadow King and the demonically possessed Anna acts as Shadow Queen, recalling the scenario at the climax of Morte Darthur, when Mordred has crowned himself king of Camelot and taken Guinevere as his queen.

The Shadow philosophy, while logically convincing, demonstrates the problems of a Darwinian philosophy that is not tempered by Jesus Christ’s religious, humanitarian philosophy. Any scientific or military movement that refuses to support the underdog, nurture the poor, and protect the defenseless is too inhuman – too Satanic – for anyone of good conscience to embrace. And so, the Shadows are wrong for utterly refusing to acknowledge the importance of religion, myth, and order, as exemplified by the Vorlons.

Sheridan rejects the Shadows’ offer of an alliance, just as he later rejects the Vorlons, furious with them for curbing free will, dictating the course of human destiny, and for ruthlessly slaughtering the very innocents they were pledged to protect in their crusade against the Shadows.

Here the parallel to the modern world is clear. Any religion, Christian or otherwise, that refuses to allow its followers to think for themselves, or to embrace Shadow-like chaos in any way, shape, or form, is too repressive and exclusive. Any religion or government that increases its adherents through forced conversion and kills all those who refuse to comply is too evil to deserve survival. Any government that refuses to tolerate dissidence – be it Nazi Germany, McCarthy-era America, or an atheist Communist regime – even if it creates a utopia, is also evil in its drive for “perfection,” and should be overthrown.

As stand-ins for the audience, the Babylon 5 crew is caught in the middle of this polemic war, just as viewers, in real life, are constantly exposed to an ideological war between the forces of science and religion, law and individuality. The Scopes Trial, the abortion debate, the gay marriage issue, the morality of cloning, the limits of censorship – all these political and social issues pit the polarized forces of science and religion, individuality and society, against one another. The Vorlon/Shadow War is an allegory for each and all of these contemporary crises. These real-life conflicts seem to have no real resolution, just as the Arthurian tales at their best reflect conflicts between personal honor and social mores that are impossible to resolve.

However, the solution which Babylon 5 poses is that personal honor is always superior to social mores and the laws of God and government. While Sheridan proves he is too big a man to succumb to factional fighting, others are not so noble. Discovering that the evil Earth President Clark had paid for his presidency by assassinating his predecessor and pledging Earth’s allegiance to the Shadows, Sheridan decides to break away from Earth and declares Babylon 5 a fully independent territory. Delenn, too, is disgusted that the Minbari have become isolationist, and renounces her planet, taking hundreds of loyal Minbari with her back to Babylon 5.

After these defections, Babylon 5 becomes a symbol of the perfect balance between order and chaos – an independent, multiracial community of exiles and revolutionaries working together in triumphant expatriation. Also, when one considers the station’s position – a mortal outpost caught between warring angels and devils – one soon realizes why Straczynski named the station Babylon.

As Mircea Eliade indicates in The Myth of the Eternal Return, “Babylon was a Bab-iliani, a ‘gate of the gods,’ for it was there that the gods descended to the earth … such a capital is, in effect, at the center of the universe … at the meeting place of the three cosmic zones: heaven, earth, and hell” (Eliade 14).

Still, while Babylon 5’s independence, its daring in striking out on its own in an uncertain universe, was what gave it its moral strength, its isolation also was its central weakness. By this time in the series, the station begins to look a lot like England after the Roman armies were forced to withdraw their protection, leaving the territory vulnerable to invasion. Only instead of having to protect England from Angles, Saxons, and Jutes, Sheridan was faced with the task of keeping his blossoming Alliance protected from the Shadows, the Vorlons, and their armies.

Although de Boron’s Merlin seems to remain primarily on the side of the angels, his satanic offspring makes his allegiance suspect and Kosh’s allegiance is just as vague. Although Kosh’s people, the Vorlons, are far more heroic than the Shadows are, especially since they helped sponsor Babylon 5, they grew progressively more ruthless as the series evolved, and viewers began to wonder if Kosh would turn on Sheridan. However, Kosh remains faithful to Sheridan, knowing in advance that aiding Sheridan against the Shadows will cost him his life.

Kosh not only foresees his own death, but Sheridan’s as well. He knows that the Shadows have seduced Sheridan’s wife Anna, brainwashing her to their side, and predicts that they will use her as a lure to bring Sheridan to the Shadow home world, Z’Ha’Dum, a land from which no traveler has ever returned. “If you go to Z’Ha’Dum, you will die,” Kosh intones repeatedly. But Kosh is killed by the Shadows before he has a chance to prevent Sheridan’s trip to Z’Ha’Dum, removed from the Babylon 5 legend as effectively as Merlin was removed from Camelot by Niviane.

When Sheridan goes to Z’Ha’Dum, he does so despite Kosh’s warnings, hoping to learn the Shadows’ agenda and, perhaps, to free his wife from their influence. His mission is partly successful in that he learns the key to defeating them, but he is forced to kill his wife and leaps off a cliff to his death in order to escape capture and brainwashing.

Those who expected Sheridan to remain dead were those who did not remember the key rule of the epic – every epic hero from Ulysses to Aeneas to Dante must take a trip to the underworld, and Sheridan earns his stripes as an epic hero by dying. Death also has a particular significance in Arthurian Romance, since it demonstrates that the greatest personal epiphanies and the culmination of the Grail quest are achieved at the moment the questing knight surrenders to death and sits upon the Siege Perilous. Such is also the case in Babylon 5.

Existing in the odd netherworld between life and death, Sheridan encounters Lorien, the First of the First Ones, the oldest being alive who, nevertheless, did not create the universe. Sheridan is more than confused when he first meets Lorien, constantly asking, “Why am I alive?” to which Lorien continually replies, “That is the question, isn’t it?”

When Sheridan still does not explain, Lorien expands upon this message, which is both the key to defeating the Shadows and the Vorlons and the series’ central theme.

Lorien: “Words have meaning and names have power. The universe began with a word, you know. But which came first, the word or the thought behind the word? You can’t create language without thought and you can’t conceive a thought without language. So which created the other and thus created the universe? No, I see you’re too wrapped up in your question to consider the larger issues.”

Sheridan: “What question?”

Lorien: “Who are you? It’s a dangerous question, isn’t it? There’s never a good answer to it. I suppose that’s the point…. It’s easy to find something worth dying for. Do you have anything worth living for?….You’re not embracing life, you’re fleeing death, so you’re caught in-between, unable to go forwards or backward. You’re friends need you to be what you can be when you’re no longer afraid. When you know who you are and why you are and what you want when you are no longer looking for reasons to live, but can simply be…. Surrender yourself to death, the death of flesh, the death of form. Step into the abyss and let go.”

It is only when Sheridan jumps again into the abyss, facing death a second time, that he realizes what he wants to live for – he has done grieving for his long lost wife and now he lives only for his love for Delenn. The realization is enough. Lorien rewards Sheridan by granting him twenty more years of life in order to defeat the First Ones and usher in a new age of prosperity for the younger races.

This is the moment in which Sheridan ceases to be a heroic reflection of the viewer and moves beyond the members of the television audience, elevating to God-hood, although Sheridan’s transformation invites fans of the show to contemplate joining him on a leap into the arms of death. The question is, are the viewers brave enough to sit in the Siege Perilous? It is a question that every good written romance asks of its readers, Northrop Frye explains:

romance … begins an upward journey toward man’s recovery of what he projects as sacred myth. At the bottom of the mythological universe is a death and rebirth process which cares nothing for the individual; at the top is the individual’s regained identity. At the bottom is memory which can only be returned to, a closed circle of recurrence: at the top is recreation of memory. In romance, violence and sexuality are used as rocket propulsions, so to speak, in an ascending movement. Violence becomes melodrama, the separating of heroes from villains, angels of light from giants of the dark. Sexuality becomes a driving force with a great deal of sublimation in it” (Frye 183).

Whether or not it is also true for the viewer, the reborn Sheridan certainly now understands how the universe works. It is a continuous cycle of life and death, stability and revolution. The only way to truly be alive is not to create the illusion of stability by blindly embracing stale ideologies and old myths. As Sheridan’s hero, Abraham Lincoln said, ‘The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate for the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty and we must rise to the occasion.’

Sheridan had already taken the first steps when he disavowed allegiance to any one religion and chose to break away from the aging, corrupt government of Earth. Now that he had broken free of the boundaries of his own life and faced death, the one final rebellion was to break himself and all the younger races free of the First Ones. And so, he and Delenn force a confrontation with the Shadows and the Vorlons in which they demand their independence.

By this point in the series, The Vorlon-Shadow War has escalated to the point that both races have forgotten that their mission is to guide sentient life.

Instead, they threaten to annihilate all life in the universe, humanity included, in their uncompromising contest of wills. The Captain of Babylon 5, John Sheridan, rises above the polemic, demanding the right to find his own balance between order and chaos, refusing to choose one over the other. In a moment that echoes Kirk’s confrontation with Apollo, Sheridan then stands firmly before the warring giants, demanding that they relinquish their claims on the races of Babylon 5 and set humanity free.

DeLenn: [speaking to the First Ones] “You’ve been fighting each other for so long you’ve forgotten – You’ve lost your way. How can you guide us? How can we learn who we are and what we want if you don’t even know?

John: “We can’t afford it anymore. We don’t need it. We don’t need you. We’ve learned to stand on our own. We’ll make mistakes but they’ll be our mistakes, not yours…. We refuse to take sides in this anymore and we refuse to let you turn us against one another. We know who we are now. We can find our own way between order and chaos…. It’s over because we’ve decided it’s over. Now get the hell out of our galaxy! Both of you!”

Knowing that they are beaten and unwanted, the Shadows and the Vorlons revert from angry parents embroiled in a bitter divorce to sad, lost children, wondering what to do with themselves. After Sheridan expels them from the galaxy, Lorien promises to follow them into the other universe beyond the rim, the metaphysical place to which all life will eventually evolve, or pass away after death. Before Lorien departs with the Shadows and the Vorlons, he bequeaths the universe to Sheridan and Delenn, who will represent the interests of all the younger races.

Lorien: “This is yours now and you have an obligation to do as we have done – to teach the races that will follow you and when your times comes as ours has to step aside and allow them to grow into their own destiny. If your race survives, if you do not kill yourselves, I look forward to the day when your people join us beyond the rim. We will wait for you.”

Once humanity is granted its autonomy from the gods of the past and stands ready to face the future, Sheridan is both excited and daunted by the prospect. In this scene, from “Into the Fire,” he expresses his view of human history with his true love, Delenn, the leader of the Minbari:

Sheridan: “It’s a new age, a third age…. We began in chaos – too primitive to make our own decisions, then we were manipulated from the outside by forces that thought they knew what was best for us … and now … now we’re free to stand on our own…. It’s a great responsibility.”

Sheridan’s three ages express the mythical history of Babylon 5 – before, during, and after the rule of the Shadows and the Vorlon – but they also offer an interesting gloss on the real human history from prehistoric times to the age of empires to the era of democracy. However, as hopeful as Sheridan is about the future, he briefly expresses a Bradbury-like regret over his decision to exorcise the old angels and devils from the galaxy.

Sheridan: “It feels like the magic’s gone.”

Delenn: “Not gone. Now we make our own magic. Now we create our own legends. Now we build the future. Now we stop …

Sheridan: “… being afraid of shadows.”

As good as their word, Sheridan and Delenn marry and found The Interstellar Alliance, uniting the various alien races under one rule and bringing peace to the formerly unstable galaxy, utilizing Babylon 5 as the seat of government.

Unlike Kirk before him, Sheridan is glad to defeat the stifling myths of the First Ones, yet he recognizes the need for myth in a universe that has lost all its gods. That is why, in the final episode of the series, “Sleeping in Light,” Sheridan plans on his deathbed to give the younger races a new myth to give them hope for the future – he plans his own deification.

The episode takes place twenty years after the end of the Shadow War and the founding of the Interstellar Alliance, on the night that Sheridan realizes his time allotted has come to an end. After watching the sun come up with his wife, Delenn, Sheridan announces that he must leave her and face his destiny alone.

John: “Everything we’ve built here and with the alliance has become half reality and half mythology and if it all ends here like it ends anywhere else … but if it ends out there, they’ll remember it. It’ll make it a little easier for you to keep the others in line.”

Delenn: [crying] “Always thinking strategy, even now.”

What is fascinating and horrifying about the exchange between the two is that it completes the transformation of Sheridan from a knightly hero – a rebel who represents the spirit of the people – into a king or a god – the very force of order and establishment that a hero, by his nature, is sworn to oppose. It is here that a series which has been staunchly pro-individual all along ultimately recognizes the necessity of government, religion, and the establishment and has its hero proclaim this necessity.

This is a comforting moment for those who are inclined to be sympathetic with collective organizations such as government and religion. Still, the unapologetic individualists may also take comfort in knowing that the series’ philosophy demands that institutions must die and be reborn to remain pure and true to their peaceful, generous visions. Therefore, even this myth Sheridan is creating will not last forever, nor will the Alliance last forever, but will pass on after it has outlived its usefulness. Not even Babylon 5 is forever, it turns out, since Sheridan leaves after this discussion, taking a shuttlecraft to Babylon 5, to give it one last look before it, too, is decommissioned.

Sheridan then proceeds to Coriana 6, the sector of space where the First Ones left the universe behind. As soon as he arrives at the gateway to the dimension beyond the rim, Sheridan begins to feel his life slipping away. Then, in the area of space in front of his vessel, a web of light appears and speaks to him in Lorien’s voice. Although Lorien has protested long and hard that he is not God, he sounds very much like a god of some kind when he reveals that has been waiting for Sheridan all this time.

Sheridan: “Can I come back?”

Lorien: “No. This journey has ended. Another begins. Time to rest now.”

Then there’s a close-up of Sheridan’s face, which is illuminated by a brilliant burst of light, symbolizing his final illumination – the end of his Grail quest. As he looks on it, he smiles and says, “Well, look at that. The sun’s coming up.” When the light recedes, Sheridan is no longer on board the space ship. He has been taken beyond the rim to join the First Ones. And so, when an expedition is later launched to find Sheridan, the empty space ship is discovered, but there is no sign of his body.

This moment, like the resolution of “Grail” and the end of The Seventh Seal, is ambiguous. The series has maintained all along that there are no souls as Christians understand them, that there is no God as Christians understand it, and there is no Heaven as Christians understand it. And yet, this closing segment belies the argument, seeming to suggest that Sheridan has died and God and His angels have taken his soul up into Heaven. Although Straczynski might deny this and argue that Sheridan’s essence was taken beyond the rim to evolve into a new state of being among Lorien and the First Ones, such argument seems to be primarily semantic, and, therefore, meaningless.

Still, since the segment is ambiguous, it is up to the viewer to determine what has actually occurred – a supernatural event, an evolutionary miracle, or something else altogether. No matter what explanation the viewer may choose, there is no avoiding coaching such an explanation in a mythological fashion.

Voicing the final narrative speech of the series, Susan Ivanova, one of the show’s many cynical personalities, makes a cryptic statement about Sheridan’s ultimate fate, “Some of the Minbari believe he’ll come back some day, but I never saw him again in my lifetime.”

This sentiment bares a striking similarity to the one that brings Malory’s chronicle to a close, “Yet some men say in many parts of England that King Arthur is not dead, but had by the will of our Lord Jesu gone into another place; and men say that he shall come again, and he shall win the holy cross. I will not say it shall be so, but rather I will say, here in this world he changed his life. But many men say there is written upon his tomb this verse: [here lies King Arthur, former king and future].” (Wilhelm 569)

Unlike Star Trek: The Next Generation, which celebrates atheism and argues that there is no need for myth or religion in the future, Babylon 5 recognizes the human need for myth as the key tool in defining our lives. The series only rebels against established dogmas that have atrophied over time and demands, in a true Emersonian fashion, that we all discover our own defining life myth rather than be slave to myths handed down to us by our parents.

As Northrop Frye astutely states in The Secular Scripture,

The myth of Eden, similarly, suggests a final reconciliation with nature as something to be attained after the human community has been reordered. We reach the ideal of romance through a progressive bursting of closed circles, first of social mythology, whether frivolous or serious, then of nature, and finally of the comic providential universe of Christianity and other religions, including Marxism, which contains them both (Frye 173).

While Frye supports the view that traditional myths need to be “burst” like “closed circles,” he qualifies the concept by maintaining that

transcendence [of myth] here does not mean repudiating or getting rid of it, except in special cases. It means rather an individual recreation of mythology, a transforming of it from accepted social values into axioms of one’s own activity (Frye 170).

Babylon 5 invites viewers to consider it as a myth for the modern world, a new vision for a pluralistic, post-modern community entering the twenty-first century. It raises fascinating religious and theological issues, coached in a retelling of the Arthurian saga, and it invites viewers to explore these issues during the course of the series as an honorary member of its ensemble cast.

However, at key moments when the show is in danger of taking a firm stand on the existence of God and the meaning of life, it backs off and allows viewers to find their own answers, because Straczynski would never want to trap viewers in his own mythic vision. He would rather viewers use his series as a tool to empower them and help them think for themselves and find their own meaning in life, for that is what myth, at its best, affords its adherents.

Works Cited and Consulted

Bassom, David. Creating Babylon 5. DEL REY. Ballantine Books. New York. 1997.

Bettelheim, Bruno. The Uses of Enchantment: The Meaning and Importance of Fairy Tales. Vintage Books. Random House. New York. 1976.

Cazelles, Brigitte. The Unholy Grail: A Social Reading of Chretien de Troyes’s Conte du Graal. Stanford University Press. Stanford, California. 1996.

Clareson, Thomas D. Understanding Contemporary American Science Fiction. University of South Carolina Press. South Carolina. 1990.

Coupe, Laurence. Myth. Routledge. London and New York. 1997.

Eliade, Mircea. The Myth of the Eternal Return. Translated from French by Willard R. Trask. Pantheon Books. New York, N.Y. 1954.

Fisher, Lizette Andrews. The Mystic Vision in the Grail Legend and in the Divine Comedy. AMS Press, Inc. New York. 1966.

Frye, Northrop. The Secular Scripture. Harvard University Press. Cambridge/London 1976.

James, Edward. “Rewriting the Christian Apocalypse as a Science Fiction Event” from Imagining Apocalypse: Studies in Cultural Crisis. Ed: David Seed. Macmillan/St. Martin’s Press, London/New York. 2000.

Kibler, William W. “Chretien de Troyes: Lancelot, or The Knight of the Cart” from The Romance of Arthur: An Anthology of Medieval Texts in Translation. Ed: James J. Wilhelm. Garland Publishing, Inc. New York & London. 1994.

Lacy, Norris J. “Mythopoeia in Excalibur” from Cinema Arthuriana: Essays on Arthurian Film. Ed: Kevin J. Harty. Garland Publishing: New York and London. 1991.

Lewis, C.S. A Grief Observed. Bantam books: New York/London. 1976.

Loomis, Roger Sherman. The Development of Arthurian Romance. The Norton Library: New York. 1963.

Malory, Sir Thomas. King Arthur and His Knights. Ed: Eugene Vinaver. Oxford University Press. London, New York. 1975.

Marx, Christy. “Grail” Babylon 5. Babylonian Productions, Inc. 1994.

Rosenberg, Samuel N. “The Prose Merlin and the Suite du Merlin (episodes)” from The Romance of Arthur: An Anthology of Medieval Texts in Translation. Ed: James J. Wilhelm. Garland Publishing, Inc. New York & London. 1994.

Schichtman, Martin B. and James P. Carley. “Introduction” from Culture and the King: The Social Implications of the Arthurian Legend. Ed: Martin B. Schichtman and James P. Carley. State University of New York Press, Albany. 1994.

Straczynski, J. Michael. “A Late Delivery from Avalon” “Interludes and Examinations” “Severed Dreams” “The Hour of the Wolf” “Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?” “The Summoning” & “Sleeping in Light” from Babylon 5. Babylonian Productions, Inc. 1993-1998.

Tennyson, Alfred Lord. Idylls of the King. Ed. J.M. Gray. Penguin Classics. Middlesex. England. 1996.

Wolfe, Gary K. The Known and the Unknown: The Iconography of Science Fiction. The Kent State University Press. Kent, Ohio. 1979.

Wood, Charles T. “Camelot 3000 and the Future of Arthur” from Culture and the King: The Social Implications of the Arthurian Legend. Ed: Martin B. Schichtman and James P. Carley. State University of New York Press, Albany. 1994

Wilhelm, James J. “Arthur in the Latin Chronicles” and “Sir Thomas Malory: Le Morte Darthur (‘The Death of Arthur’)” from The Romance of Arthur: An Anthology of Medieval Texts in Translation. Ed: James J. Wilhelm. Garland Publishing, Inc. New York & London. 1994.

Home

Email: mdipaolo@drew.edu

A Teodicéia de Tolkien- O Problema do Mal na Terra-Média

2011-05-07T20:17:00.000-07:00

Primeiramente, é bom que se tenha em mente, o que Eru Ilúvatar fez ao deixar Melkor entrar em Eä foi permitir que ele fizesse na prática o que já havia feito em conceptualização metafísica "profética" dada inclusive como "Visão" onde o "ensaio" que era a Música era visto como um "filme" pré-visão. A coisa já era parte da Criação tal como tinha sido planejada e executada no Terceiro Tema.

Por que é que ele consentiu com isso? Opinião minha já postada em tópico anterior que, justamente, já lidou com esse tema antes que, no fim das contas, é a Teodicéia, o Problema do Mal que intriga os maiores teólogos do Cristianismo.

[QUOTE=Ilmarinen;1973760]Não, não está falando merda não. Você está explicando em palavras de leigo um problema complicadíssimo que se chama o Problema do Mal em Teologia, que está ligado com a questão do Livre-Arbítrio e da Providência Divina.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

Tem um excelente texto do Ricardo Medeiros [url=http://de-vagaesemhybrazil.blogspot.com/2008/09/livre-arbtrio-e-prescincia-divina-soluo.html]Livre-Arbítrio e Presciência Divina a Solução dos Medievais[/url] que lida de forma sucinta e clara com essas questões, mas, basicamente, implica em ver o demônio como um Mal necessário para que a Criação possa ter lugar.

A corrupção do Mundo vem do livre-arbítrio do Demônio, coartar o Livre-Arbítrio do demônio que influencia negativamente a de outros seres criados, tornaria o exercício do mesmo sem valor e tenderia a transformar outros seres em possíveis candidatos pra fazer a mesma coisa, por si próprios e sem influência externa , o que seria pior.

Aniquilar um ente criado, por desobecer e usar o livre-arbítrio, abriria um péssimo precedente, porque daria a impressão de que o dilema seria a posse da vontade própria ( haja vista que muita gente acha que o problema seria que Deus não admite tal coisa mesmo vendo os resultados negativos diante dos próprios olhos) quando, de fato, o conflito resulta do fato de que a vontade própria aí está sendo usada pra auto-exaltação e não pro bem estar dos demais entes criados.

A melhor forma de mostrar essa diferença não é ensiná-la ( caso o Anjo Mau fosse destruído e fosse contada uma história dizendo pros criados o que teria acontecido), mas, sim, mostrar aos seres criados a distinção entre uma coisa e outra "deixando" que o Mal aconteça pra que a "lição", verdadeira e não hipotética, tenha valor real. Por isso, Deus permitiria a existência do Mal, porque eliminá-lo pela Força seria o mesmo que neutralizar a existência do livre-arbítrio.

Já ouviu a noção de que, do ponto de vista fundamental, matar um ser humano é eliminar tudo o que é humano também? O mesmo se aplicaria ao livre-arbítrio de um ser criado.Claro, que nessa conclusão não está presente só logica mas , também, uma questão de Fé.[/QUOTE]

Quem quiser conferir um caso onde a aniquilação de um ser criado com livre-arbítrio acaba por desencadear um mal ainda maior depois e gera o problema referido nesse meu post transcrito acima pode dar uma checada em [url=http://www.bigorna.net/index.php?secao=comics&id=1173763807] Mistérios Divinos a adaptação gráfica em comic book do conto de Neil Gaiman[/url] , publicado em Fumaça e Espelhos, onde o autor , inclusive, homenageia o Silmarillion e a Teodicéia de Tolkien de forma estupenda e sensível contando uma história ilustrando a problemática do Livre-Arbítrio x Predestinação e Origens do mal.

[img]http://www.comicsreview.co.uk/nowreadthis/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/neil-gaimans-murder-mysteries.jpg[/img]

Espero que tenha ajudado :-)

Só um pequeno lembrete:definir como e porque os argumentos pertinentes à Teodicéia se aplicam a Melkor e Eru, nesse caso, não é off-topic, é parte integrante da pergunta , mesmo que nesse item em particular alguém possa não ter dúvidas é até natural que algumas pessoas não tenham acompanhado discussões prévias onde isso veio à tona.

Feitiço de Áquila encontra Nightwish-Sleeping sun: Sorrow has a human heart

2011-04-28T09:00:00.000-07:00

Sleeping sun

The sun is sleeping quietly
Once upon a century
Wistful oceans calm and red
Ardent caresses laid to rest

For my dreams I hold my life
For wishes I behold my nights
The truth at the end of time
Losing faith makes a crime

I wish for this night time
to last for a life-time
The darkness around me
Shores of a solar sea
Oh how I wish to go down with the sun
Sleeping
Weeping
With you

Sorrow has a human heart
From my god it will depart
I'd sail before a thousand moons
Never finding where to go

Two hundred twenty-two days of light
Will be desired by a night
A moment for the poet's play
Until there's nothing left to say

I wish for this night-time to last for a lifetime
The darkness around me
Shores of a solar sea
Oh how I wish to go down with the sun
Sleeping
Weeping
With you

I wish for this night-time to last for a lifetime
The darkness around me
Shores of a solar sea
Oh how I wish to go down with the sun
Sleeping
Weeping
With you....

Eitâ, meu teclado tá vazando água... :-P

PauloIapetus no Agenda-Setenta anos de Mulher Maravilha

2011-04-28T08:41:00.000-07:00

Eu mesmo, nos proverbiais dez (ou (quase)cinco) minutinhos de fama.

TÍVAR IN A TIMELESS LAND: TOLKIEN'S ELVES

2011-02-20T07:00:00.000-08:00

Tolkien, Undset, Laxness. Terry Gunnell: 13.09.2002

Málþing í Norræna húsinu
Tolkien, Laxness, Undset
13.-14. sept. 2002

Terry Gunnell, University of Iceland

TÍVAR IN A TIMELESS LAND: TOLKIEN'S ELVES

(Note: The following is a lecture rather than an article:
it thus lacks references and acknowledgements)

I have just reached the end of a particularly active summer, one which has involved me going through five different countries - ranging from the Baltic to the Meditteranean. In the process, I have passed through far too many cities, towns, and villages, where like any run-of-the-mill jet-lagged academic, I have tended to find myself aimlessly wandering into bookshops. And it was here, amidst the mad rush of images, smells and sounds that have been going by me, that I found a cultural constant, something that seemed to remain steady amidst the confusion of travel. It was the anguished face of Frodo Baggins, staring out through shopwindow after shopwindow, slapped across posters, video cassettes, the sleeves of CDs, DVD covers and countless editions of Lord of the Rings. While the language of the accompanying wording varied by country, the face remained the same. Now, all of this is of course linked to this summer's arrival of the Lord of the Rings video, and the build up towards the coming of the second film, The Two Towers, but the mere fact that the face is on show everywhere serves to remind us of the quite incredible international popularity that Tolkien's child has gained, and at the same time the stunning range of cultural and geographical environments in which the book is read. Standing there, in a Cretan village, facing a German copy of the book, I was drawn to consider what exactly it is that makes this supposedly most English of books accessible to all of these people? As an Englishman like Tolkien himself, I think I know how he imagined Mordor, Hobbiton and Lothlórien, but how does everyone else see each of these places and various peoples that inhabit them before the film arrived? Tolkien's powers of description are well known, but at the same time, his narrative deliberately plays off our own experiences, our own memories and dreams, and not least our own cultural backgrounds. There can be little doubt that each nation - if not each person - has his/ her own subtley different vision of Middle-earth and its inhabitants, one that fits in with their own local body of folklore and mythology, thus connecting it to their own culture. This may be regarded as one of Tolkien's greatest achievements: the worldwide attraction of the book coming precisely from the fact that he draws on such a wide range of mythological, folkloristic, and early literary material that once lived within the international oral tradition. In many ways, his technique in this regard closely resembles that of Albert Lord's Singer of Tales, the kind of oral storyteller that could be found behind the early works that Tolkien was so enamoured of, like Beowulf, the Kalevala, the Welsh Mabinogian, and the Old Icelandic Eddic poetry and sagas: it is a technique of creation from both new and old building blocks, a process that involves the adoption of known formulæ, motifs, stock scenes and characters that produce echoes in our heads, because they bring to mind other works that we have encountered elsewhere in myths, heroic legends or wonder tales ranging from Ancient Greece to Eastern Finland. Tolkien, however, seems to have been attempting to go one step further. While attempting to recreate a lost mythology for England in the Silmarillion, he was simultaneously proposing a form of ur-mythology - in Tom Shippey's words, we might call it an "asterisk mythology" - that might help explain the range of fragmented jigsaw pieces that form the mythologies of the western world, and join them into one. In other words, he might have argued that it was they rather than he that was the borrower: that all the western mythologies went back to the mythology that he was positing. Of course this was all a game that he was playing.

Whatever the case, it should not be surprising that much of the popularity of The Lord of the Rings has achieved stems from the fact that all we recognise elements of it in each of our own cultures. This of course especially applies to Iceland, and explains, for example, why The Hobbit has been such a popular textbook for almost thirty years in Menntaskólinn við Hamrahlíð. For the teachers the book has served as an effective bridge between Icelandic literature and English culture at the same time as introducing students to a range of English language and basic poetic forms. But its winning feature is simply that the students like it. It isn´t foreign to them.

As has already been shown today, the "borrowed" elements from Old and modern Icelandic culture in The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion are countless, ranging from the Ring itself, to Smaug-Fáfnir and Gollum-Gestumblindi, to Bjorn the Werebear, the Dvergatal dwarves, Aragorn's broken sword, Beren's wolf-gulped hand, the all-seeing Hliðskjálf seat of Amon Hen, the lava-like wilderness of Mordor, and last but not least, the distant flames of Mount Doom, which Tolkien's pen reached at just around the same time that Mount Hekla erupted here in 1947. One could go on for ever.

This brings us, however, to the creatures that populate Tolkien's world, which are so dear to people's hearts that they have launched a million role-playing sessions and several shops full of fantasy books. There is little question of the Germanic, and more specifically Scandinavian nature of the dwarves which sprung along with Gandalf from the words of Völuspá. Their characters throughout the books remain relatively constant. Both their names and their appearance remind us of the fact that they are close relations of Norðri, Suðri, Austri and Vestri, and the whily makers of Þór's hammer and Freyja's Brisingamen. Admittedly there is little evidence of them lusting after young ladies like Freyja or Þór's daughter, but there again there is little hanky-panky of any kind in The Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit. There isn´t even a Mrs Oakenshield.

The dwarves then, are stable and well recognisable, if over-tightly bound into their mithril cod-pieces. In many ways the same applies to the hobbits. They always remind me of an archetypal group of aging middle-class southern-English tourists, as full of quaint charm, floral patterns and oaken beams as a Sussex village, as fruitfully tasteful and potent as a pint of good Cornish scrumpy. The Shire is southern and middle England before the appearance of heavy industry, Aids and CD-Rom. Tolkien with his pipe and waistcoats regularly compared himself to Bilbo.

But what about the elves, those creatures that have impressed themselves most deeply on the minds of Tolkien's readers, probably more so than the hobbits themselves? Much of their attraction stems from the fact that they are the most inconstant and complex of Tolkien's creations, in a sense a microcosm of the compexity of the works themselves. While the word elf, which Tolkien chose to use instead of "fairy", is Germanic, the beings denoted by the word are much more international.

To start with, we need to realise that unlike the dwarves, the final form of the elves was developed over time, the figures we meet in The Lord of the Rings representing an intriguing blend of two images that lived side by side in Tolkien's mind until the late 1930s. And in spite of his later complaints about the awful influence of "Will Shakespeare and his damned cobwebs" which he felt led to the "the disastrous debasement of the word" fairy, it seems clear that Tolkien's earliest understanding of the fairy world was not so far off from that depicted in A Midsummer Night's Dream. A poem called "Wood Sunshine", written at by Tolkien at the tender age of 18, runs as follows:

Come sing ye light fairy things tripping so gay,
Like visions, like glinting reflections of joy,
All fashion'd of radiance, careless of grief,
O'er this green and brown carpet; nor hasten away.
O! come to me! dance for me! Sprites of the wood,
O! come to me! Sing to me once ere ye fade!

It´s not exactly Bob Dylan, but it has its charm. Five years later, during the First World War, another poem, called "Goblin Feet", was written. This is slightly more developed, but its image of tiny creatures remains the same:

I am off down the road
Where the fairy lanterns glowed
And the little pretty flittermice are flying:
A slender band of grey
It runs creepily away
And the hedges and the grasses are a-sighing.
The air is full of wings,
Of the blundering beetle things
That warn you with their whirring and their humming.

O! I hear the tiny horns
Of enchanted leprechauns
And the padding feet of many gnomes a-coming!
O! the lights: O! the gleams: O! the little tinkly sounds:
O! the rustle of their noiseless little robes:
O! the echo of their feet - of their little happy feet:
O! their swinging lamps in little starlit globes.

The elements of little happy feet, tiny horns and little tinkly sounds would remain linked to one of Tolkien's images of fairy folk for the next twenty years, at least until the arrival of The Hobbit in the mid 1930s. In one of the Father Christmas letters written for his children in 1936, we find a message by an elf called Ilbereth accompanying a picture which indicates without question that the elves of the North Pole were somewhat vertically challenged. They might have grown in size for The Hobbit, but their nature remains similar to that imagined by the youthful J.R.R. When we first meet them in Rivendell, they carry "bright lanterns" and "laughed and sang in the trees", "Elvish singing" being "not a thing to miss, in June under the stars, not if you care for such things." And then we have the songs themselves: In The Hobbit Tolkien regularly employs songs as an effective means of expressing natural characteristics. Thus we find the mining dwarves doing early versions of the "Hi Ho Hi Ho" song, and the goblins preparing the world for the coming of the Johnny Rotten and the Sex Pistols. As for the elves?

O! What are you doing,
And where are you going?
Your ponies need shoeing!
The river is flowing!
Oh! tra-la-la-lally
There down in the valley!

O! What are you seeking,
And where are you making?
The faggots are reeking,
The bannocks are baking!
Oh! tril-lil-lil-lolly,
the valley is jolly,
ha! ha!

Somehow one can´t see Galadriel singing this little ditty.

The image of the elves as a bunch of all-night party-goers drinking wine and doing morris dancing on ecstacy is repeated in the description of the Elf King and his disappearing followers in Mirkwood. In short, the elven image of this time is very close to that of the archetypal English forest elves of Shakespeare, Spencer and the Middle English Sir Orfeo which Tolkien translated while he was studying for university:

There often by him would he see,
when noon was hot on leaf and tree,
he king of Færie with his rout
came hunting in the woods about
with blowing far and crying dim,
and barking hounds that were with him;
yet never a beast they took nor slew,
and where they went he never knew

The first hints of the other greater mythological world that Tolkien was creating in his spare time occur in The Hobbit's description of Elrond, but even here, the figure of the Master of The Last Homely House seems closer to the tubby barman of an old English pub than the grandson of Earendil: As Tolkien writes:
The master of the house was an elf-friend - one of those people whose fathers came into the strange stories before the beginning of History, the wars of the evil goblins and the elves and the first men in the north. In the days of our tale there were still some people who had both elves and heroes of the North for ancestors, and Elrond the master of the house was their chief. He was a noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard and as kind as summer. He comes into many tales… His house was perfect, whether you liked food, or sleep, or work, or storytelling, or singing, or just sitting and thinking best, or the pleasant mixture of them all. Evil things did not come into that valley.
Compare this to the description of the same figure and his daughter Arwen given in The Lord of the Rings:
The face of Elrond was ageless, neither old nor young, though in it was written the memory of many things both old and sorrowful. His hair was dark as the shadows of twilight, and upon it was set a circlet of silver; his eyes were grey as a clear evening, and in them was a light like the light of stars. Venerable he seemed as a king crowned with many winters, and yet hale as a tried warrior in the fulness of his strength. He was the Lord of Rivendell and mighty among both Elves and Men….
As for Arwen:
Young she was and yet not so. The braids of her dark hair were touched by no frost, her white arms and clear face were flawless and smooth, and the light of stars was in her bright eyes, grey as a cloudless night; yet queenly she looked, and thought and knowledge were in her glance, as of one who has known many things that the years bring. Above her brow her head was covered with a cap of silver lace netted with small gems, glittering white; but her soft grey raiment had no ornament save a girdle of leaves wrought in silver.
The links to nature are still there, but the figures are of a much greater complexity. In a sense they have been elevated to the status of gods, the outlines of which are elusive, unbound by time and place.

Much of this is due to the blending of the worlds of The Hobbit and the Biblical Silmarillion which Tolkien attempted in The Lord of the Rings. As those who have read it will know, The Silmarillion, created between the two wars, describes Tolkien's version of The Creation and the Fall, the First and Second Ages of the world, in which the first-born elves exile themselves from the heavenly light of Valinor where the gods live, and move into Middle-earth where they defeat the Satan-like Morgoth and his side-kick Sauron for the first time. At the start, the elves have an essentially human role alongside the godlike Valar and the creator Iluvatar. As Humphrey Carpenter notes:
They are to all intents and purposes men: or rather, they are Man before the Fall which deprived him of his powers of achievement. Tolkien believed devoutly that there had once been an Eden on earth, and that man's original sin and subsequent dethronement were responsible for the ills of the world; but his elves, though capable of sin and error, have not "fallen" in the theological sense, and so are able to achieve much beyond the powers of men. They are craftsmen, poets, scribes, creators of works of beauty far surpassing human artefacts. Most important of all they are, unless slain in battle, immortal. Old Age, disease and eath do not bring their work to an end while it is still unfinished or imperfect. They are therefore the ideal of every artist.
These elves, however, are of at least human size, if near immortal, their strength in the face of tragedy and the ravages of destiny giving them a heroic status. Tales like those of the lovers Beren and Luthien, bring us firmly into the world of heroic ballads like that of the Scottish Thomas the Rhymer, or the Icelandic Ólafur Liljurós, a world in which the ears of the gods may be still accessible, but they themselves are no longer visible. We are moving out of the world of myth into that of heroic legend and romance like those of Arthur and Roland, a world where the activities of both elves and men have become somehow elevated to those of superhuman classical heroes, engaged in great quests, battles and acts of love. This applies especially to the final part of The Silmarillion, which tells of the final battle between the elves and the men of Numenor at the end of the Second Age. It is worth noting though, that the elves here are still essentially active figures which take part in the fighting.

Things are different in The Lord of the Rings. Here the fairy dancing and wine carousing is over, but so too are the heroic deeds of the past. The great figures of Elrond and Galadriel remain near static in their strongholds, Legolas and Glorfindel being in more than one sense anomalies. And just as the structure of the book (like that of The Hobbit) is deliberately structured around the natural year and the death and rebirth of nature, it simultaneously reflects the fading of one world and the birth of another. The mythological worlds of the dead dwarves of Khazad-dum and the autumnal elves of Lothlorien and Rivendell are limited to the winter landscape of the first book. In the following two books, they are succeeded by a new world of warring men, and never seen by the reader again, even on the way home to the Shire and ultimately the Grey Havens. Again and again, we are reminded that the end is coming, and on the surface, the elves seem to do little about it. They send no army to Minas Tirith or The Black Gates… and accounts of them fighting Sauron's forces outside Lothlórien are mainly relegated to the Annals given at the end of The Return of the King.

While the elves are physically inactive, however, their spiritual power seems to have increased. In a world that now seems to lack completely the direct participation of Iluvatar or the Valar, the role of the elves seems to have been largely elevated from that of tragic heroes to one of godlike doners (if we use Propp's terminology), and spiritual helpers from afar. This especially applies to the Lady Galadriel who Sam manages to call on at a distance when he is fighting Shelob, whose glass phial provides light and hope in the darkness of Mordor, and whose earth and seeds bring The Shire promptly back to life after the ravages of Saruman at the end of the book. Frodo may develop Christ-like features, and Gandalf may be an All-Father, but the image of Galadriel and Lórien (which are really inseparable) runs throughout the book (not least in Sam's memories) as a godlike personification of the ancient forces of nature, cosmos and growth which Tolkien balances against the modern powers of iron, mass production, machinery, chaos and destruction as represented by Saruman and Sauron.

Developing from dancing fairies to the children of God, warrior heroes and godlike representatives, the elves of Tolkien's work are highly complex figures. And in their complexity we see reflections not only of stars and the changing seasons but also a range of international mythologies, elements of which Tolkien weaves together to create ephemeral figures that ring intimate chords in all of our minds. Certainly, as usual, there are strong Germanic and Scandinavian elements, linked essentially - and typically - with the mythological álfar of Old Norse literature, rather than those of more recent Icelandic or Scandinavian folklore. Tolkien's elves of The Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion may be hidden, in places like Lorien, Mirkwood, Gondolin, Rivendell and Doriath, but they are not huldufólk or underjordisk. The sagas talk of álfablót - annual sacrifices to elves - and formulae in the Eddic poems regularly rank the álfar alongside the Æsir and the Jötnar, as in expressions like "Hvað er með ásum/ hvað er með álfum" which make one wonder whether the word might even be a synonym for the Vanir gods of fertility like Freyr, Freyja and Njörður. Certainly the Vanir and álfar are closely connected. Ingvi-Freyr himself is said to have been granted Álfheimur as tannfé, and is upset about the "álfröðull", the sun, not following his whims. Furthermore, as Tolkien would have known, the apparent names Freyr and Freyja were not actually names but rather noa expressions simply meaning Lord and Lady (titles which are incidentally also given to Galadriel and Celeborn). (In this loose context, it is also hard to ignore Galadriel's note that the G on the box of soil given to Sam also means Garden, something that immediately brings the name Gerður to mind.) Finally, one cannot forget the links between Tolkien's elves and beautiful ships (bringing to mind the role of Njörður, and Freyr's ship Skíðblaðnir), or the key fact that in The Silmarillion, the name of the elf who led the first elven tribe - known incidentally as the Vanyar - is Ingwe.

I should stress here that I am not trying to say that Tolkien's elves are meant to belong to the Vanir race, more that these are mythological notes that he consciously or unconciously plays on in the mind of at least one reader. The notes played, however, only belong to one minor tune in the elven symphony… one that if left alone would have been relatively simplistic. We must remember that the Scandinavian elves, when we later hear of their habitats, live in rocks or the earth. They do not inhabit forests or live in trees. [1] Nor - for 99% of the time - are they warriors. And while they might be fading away in the face of road builders, we never hear of them departing for the west. Furthermore, while Freyr and Freyja are twins who are supposed to have enjoyed a bit of incest, we never see them together as a regal couple. For the roots of many of these images we have to look back to the old Tolkien image of elves. Whatever he may have felt about Shakespeare, it is very difficult to ignore the parallels between the silver haired Celeborn and the golden haired Galadriel and the nature-disrupting forest figures of Oberon and Titania in A Midsummer Night's Dream - or at least their folkloristic forebears. Tolkien may have hated the play, but he happily quoted Puck in his letters, and as Tom Shippey has noted elsewhere, drew on motifs from Macbeth in the siege of Isengard and the final death of the King of the Nazgul. The reflections of the lantern-bearing forest elves of English folklore are thus strong, as of course they should be in a new English mythology, but even here we have not reached the end of the story. Still remaining are the the Ragnarokian feelings of elvish doom, the idea of departure to the West, and the elements of heroic warriors of the past. As Tolkien knew, English folklore - and any ur-mythology - must be a melting pot of concepts and stories drawn from a wide variety of cultural sources. And when considering the tunes that Tolkien draws on when creating his elves, we need not only to consider English and German traditions, but also those from the Gælic speaking countries

Tolkien's relationship to the Gælic languages and literatures was admittedly somewhat complex. He loved Welsh, which gave him ideas for the later Sindarin language that he created for the elves. He loved Ireland as well, but had a love-hate relationship with the language, which he was irritated to find he could not master. He was fond of Celtic literature, especially the Welsh, and admits wanting a "fair, elusive" Celtic feel to some of his stories. He comments directly in a letter that the Gælic legends and myths "have bright colour, but are like a broken stained glass window reassembled without design. They are in fact 'mad'." There is no question that Tolkien knew his Old Irish literature, as one can see from his references to the one-handed god Nuadu, to the land of eternal youth called Tír na Nóg, to vanishing islands, to the Imram voyages of Bran and Brendan, and to the magical world of Hy Breasail that was supposed to exist across the sea in the far west. It is here, in Old Irish literature that find a race of god-like heroes who initially came across the sea to Ireland, and take the country over after waging war against the evil monsters that had previously inhabited the land. Their time, however, is limited, and they finally agree to go into exile - many going across the sea - in the face of the coming of the Milenians, the ancestors of Man. The figures in question are the Tuatha de Danaan, the People of the Mother Goddess Danu: godlike craftsmen, warriors, poets and magicians. Over the process of time, they come to be transformed into the Irish elves, living either in hills and ancient grave mounds, or across the sea on magical disappearing islands to the west, like The Island of Promise and The Island of Youth, all of which which offer close parallels to the concept of Tolkien's Tol Eressea.

A short quote from the Old Irish Book of Invasions should serve to explain what I mean:
Though some say that the Tuatha De Danaan were demons, seeing that they came unperceived (and they themselves said that it was in dark clouds that they came, after burning their ships) and for the obsurity of their knowledge and adventures, and for the uncertainty of their genealogy as carried backwards: but that is not true, for their genealogies carried backward are sound; howbeit they learnt knowledge and poetry; for every obscurity of art and every clearness of reading, and every subtlety of crafts, for that reason derive their origin from the Tuatha de Danaan. And though the faith came, those arts were not put away, for they are good, and no demon ever did good. It is clear therefore from their dignities and their deaths that the Tuatha de Danaan were not of the demons nor were they sidh folk.
There is good reason for looking more carefully at the possible Irish backgrounds for Tolkien's material than scholars have so far done.

In short, the shimmering rainment of Tolkien's elves might be said to be an image of the author's art as a whole, reflecting not only a range of cultures, but also a diachronic development from godlike álfur to modern day fairy or huldufólk. As Frodo comments about Lothlórien:
It seemed to him that he had stepped through a high window that looked on a vanished world. A light was upon it for which his language had no name. All that he saw was shapely, but the shapes seemed at once clear cut, as is they had been first conceived and drawn at the uncovering of his eyes, and ancient as if they had endured for ever. He saw no colour but those he knew, gold and white and blue and green, but they were fresh and poignant, as if he had at that moment first perceived them and made for them names new and wonderful.
The same applies to Tolkien's elves as a whole. That is their cross-cultural attraction.

[1] While the Norwegian huldre, for example, are sometimes seen in forests, we have little information about them actually living on the surface of the ground there. They essentially live below the surface of the earth. Certainly the Swedish skogsrå live in forests, but they are very different beings, appearing alone rather than in groups, and looking like trees, rather than living in them.
Til baka...
© Stofnun Árna Magnússonar í íslenskum fræðum - Stofa Sigurðar Nordals
Pósthólf 1220 - Þingholtsstræti 29 - 121 Reykjavík - Sími 562 6050, fax 562 6263, nordals[hjá]hi.is

Modelos maravilha...

2011-01-09T17:12:00.000-08:00

George Pérez discutiu recentemente quais teriam sido suas modelos pras versões da Mulher Maravilha

Pérez disse que foi Connie Selleca, mas Verônica Hamel era ainda mais parecida

Julguem por si mesmos

Segundo ele a Pós-Crise com o rostinho de cima foi inspirada por Marina Sirtis, a Deanna Troy de Jornada nas Estrelas a Nova Geração

Pré-Crise (Connie Selleca e/ou Veronica Hamel

Pós-Crise(Sirtis?)

Vou mais na teoria de Connie Selleca.Estarão os problemas de visão atuais de Pérez interferindo com sua memória? :-P

Comparem de novo:

Pós-Infinite Crisis-Uma fusão de todas elas?

Wonder Woman-Entrevista com Pérez na She Magazine

2011-01-09T16:13:00.000-08:00

Outra raridade preservada para a posteridade pelo amor dos fãs devotados.

Wonder Woman na Amazing Heroes de 1986-Matéria completa

2011-01-09T15:40:00.000-08:00

Arte raríssima do grande George "Gorgeous" Pérez

Para comemorar o Ano-Novo, um presente de Natal atrasado para os aficcionados...

Um dos downloads mais sofridos da minha vida... Horas e horas em banda larga para pegar só 45 mgs de imagens zipadas. Mas valeu a pena. A entrevista/matéria de dez páginas que assinalou o início do trabalho monumental de Pérez com a Wonder Woman em 1986.

Por enquanto raridade mesmo nos tempos dos prodígios do mundo globalizado internético.

Saboreiem.

Five Questions with J. Michael Straczynski!

2010-10-17T10:31:00.000-07:00

Gaelforce
WW Section Mom

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 803

I've made no bones about the fact that I'm a fan of J. Michael Straczynski and I was very excited to go to NYCC for his panel. While there I met Jan, the administrator over at http://jmsnews.com/forums/, and she was kind enough to point me in the direction of his e-mail. I had not expected such a fast and gracious reply and JMS was kind enough to take the time to answer five questions for us.

My thanks again to him for his reply!

1. How did you end up with the job of writing the ongoing Wonder Woman series and did your story in Brave and Bold 33 factor into it at all?

I took it on at the request of Dan DiDio. What happened -- and I've discussed this in a few other places -- is that we were having dinner here in LA on one of his frequent trips out here, and he starting talking about some of the books with which they've been having a hard time. Wonder Woman was at the top of the list: she's part of the DC Trinity, but whereas Batman and Superman were selling well -- 20s to 30s of the top 100 books -- her books were selling in the bottom 80s to upper 90s, this despite having had some really terrific writers on the book.

The problem, we both agreed, was two-fold: first, the mythology and supporting cast had grown up around her so thickly that they began to obscure the main character in a way that made her and the book less accessible to new readers, and made the book problematic for current readers who had to keep track of it all, or who wanted to see a book about Diana, not the supporting cast. This was underscored by the numbers: the book had been regularly hemorrhaging 1000-1500 issues per issue for months, meaning that the book wasn't attracting new readers, and was losing regular readers. Again, this doesn't directly comment on the quality of the storytelling or the writing: if the audience perceives that the book or character isn't accessible, if they feel that you need a scorecard to keep track of the universe surrounding the character, they're not going to pick it up to find out if it's any good or not.

The book is about Diana. It's not the Cheetah book. It's not the Hercules book. It's her name on the title page, and if that means you peel off the supporting cast for a while to focus on her, then that's what you do. If the mythos is so complex and over-wrought (again we're talking perception here, not necessarily the specifics), then you simplify that for a while. When you put that into actual writing terms, it means isolating the character so you can focus on her, stripping her down to the bare bones, and then slowly, carefully, gradually re-introduce those elements of the character and her mythos that you want to keep.

A certain amount of this is about clarity of concept. Batman is the son of murdered parents seeking vengeance by proxy. Superman is the last survivor of a distant world. Green Lantern is an interstellar policeman, a man without fear. The Flash is a police scientist and the fastest man on the planet. Ask the same question about Wonder Woman and you get a nearly infinite number of answers: a symbol of peace...a warrior...an ambassador...a royal daughter...the list goes on. And yes, all of those aspects are fundamentally true (if sometimes a bit contradictory), I'm not saying otherwise. But if you had to tell someone who'd never read her book why he or she should pick it up, it helps to have clarity of concept. This is true of every creative venture, from TV to film to novels to comics. It's the Greek notion of the ideal form: what is a thing unto itself? What is its perfect form?

The word perfect also touches upon the other problematic aspect of the character. As Dan has said many times, "Where do you go with someone who's perfect, and who some insist on staying perfect?"

Prior to getting into TV, comics or film, I'd written plays and I have a deep and abiding interest in Greek theater and Greek ways of thought (which is why I picked up a minor in Philosophy at SDSU). Greek drama was the flashpoint of stories that are derived from both internal and external conflict, and in particular it stems from our flaws. Going back to Diana's roots, this was the staple of Greek theater starting around 500 BC...the conflict between our destiny and our free will, and the tragic flaws within us that led us to our fates.

In particular, I looked back to the works of Thespis, Aeschylus, Sophocles, Eurpides and others, in which so often the main character was suddenly and for often no good reason beset by the gods...abandoned by them, chosen by them, or having terrible fates inflicted upon them. They are tested, tried, and stripped of everything they have, in ways that were often violent and upsetting, to see what they will make of their fates, and themselves. So that, to me, seemed the best way to go that would be consistent with the roots of the character: take away from her everything she has, everything we know of her, cast her out, have the gods seem to turn their backs on her, and watch her as she either falls, or climbs back to something equal to or greater than she had been before. The setting would be modern, but the ride we would put her on could be tracked on a direct line to her character's roots in Greek storytelling.

Put more bluntly...she is orphaned as a child, washes up on the shore of a distant land, is raised with a foot each in the physical world and the world of gods, and has to embark on a journey to save her people, fight (or save) the gods, and evolve spiritually or die. While I won't draw a parallel in the quality of storytelling -- it would be ridiculous, these guys had me beat centuries ago -- you can take that specific structure and draw thematic parallels to the Iliad and the Odyssey, to Odysseus and Ulysses and other figures of classic Greek theater and literature.

It was when I figured this out that I said to Dan, "let me take a shot at the book." I knew that this structure wouldn't be immediately apparent, and I'd probably earn a lot of brickbats before I got any flowers, but if I learned anything from Babylon 5 it's to be patient as a writer. During and after the first season, everybody was yelling at me, saying I'd promised them a five year arc, but they didn't see it, the stories all seemed episodic. Yes, they did...looking one way. But once you've got some mileage with the story under your belt, you can look back and suddenly see the connective tissue. It's a hard way to write, because you have to go into it prepared to have people beat the crap out of you -- because looking at the story as it comes is the only way they can look at it, they don't know what's coming, and they have a right to beat the crap out of you until you've proven your point. It's all very nice to say "trust me," but we all know that all too often it doesn't pan out. It's appropriate and proper to be dubious, and to challenge the work while it's in process. Otherwise you abrogate your responsibility as a reader. If you don't want to be criticized, don't become a writer. All I can do at my end is to hold onto the roller coaster and hope that by the time the ride is over, enough people will be able to look at the work and say, "Oh, okay, NOW I get it" to have made the trip worthwhile.

2. Starting with an ‘all new’ Diana was a bit of a risk considering this was only the second time you were writing the character (hardcore Wonder Woman fans are a bit notorious for their love of the more traditional character ;) ). Why take this approach as opposed to writing the more ‘classic’ Wonder Woman first to establish yourself with her fan base and then launching the current arc a few issues in?

When a writer with any visibility -- and I barely count myself in that category -- comes onto a book, there's a great deal of attendant publicity. Consequently, you're apt to get the largest number of new or casual readers for those first few issues. So it was incumbent upon me to hit with this story right off the bat, to take advantage of that momentum. Again, the intention was to clear the decks and attract new readers with an accessible story for which there's little or no prior knowledge required, so -- form following function -- that's where you want to start your story, with the least baggage and the maximum potential readership, especially coming off issue 600.

3. By both the arc’s title of ‘Odyssey’ as well as your previous statements about the book, it seems that Diana is on a journey not only to find out the truth about the altered timeline but she’s also on a more spiritual journey during which this younger Diana will learn and grow as the storyline progresses. In the end, though, what do you consider to be the core elements of Wonder Woman in terms of personality and values as well as her power level and iconic status in the DCU?

Let me try to answer this by addressing the broader issues of her journey, and her internal makeup. Let's start with the notion of "Wonder Woman is not about vengeance" issue, which was mentioned a few times hereabouts, I hear. Let's parse that for just a moment. To start with: those making the observation are absolutely, 100% correct in general, though I do think there could be times when something sufficiently awful happens that she would need to avenge a person or a cause close to her. If someone does something horrific to someone you love, and you don't have anger, if you don't want to avenge them, there's something missing in your psychological makeup. That's our nature as emotional beings. But what you don't want to do is to let vengeance control you, or become the central fulcrum in your life upon which every other relationship turns. The moment it becomes the lens through which you see the world...you're screwed, and so is everyone unlucky enough to be in your orbit.

The Wonder Woman raised on Paradise Island, in an idyllic setting, with a loving mother, a member of the royal family, who had little real trauma prior to going into the outside world, has little within her in need of vengeance. She didn't have to earn her ability to throw off vengeance; it was simply never an issue. Which is not to say there weren't tragedies and loss, only that there isn't that deep seated need for vengeance that might come if, let's say, your mother was murdered, your land stolen, your people decimated, and you were raised on the run without any place to really call home. That's the kind of thing that can really mess with your head.

Yes, she wants to settle that score. Anyone who could endure all that and not want to settle the score...raise your hands.

But...and this is the important point...does she stay in that mode, or does she have the chance, and do we get the chance, to see her grow beyond that? It's one thing to say "No, this doesn't bother me," because it just never did...and something quite again to see someone earn that, to see Diana (or anyone, really) confront their rage, grow beyond it, and let it go before it can destroy them and all they love. That's where wisdom comes from: not what someone told you, but from what you experience and what you let it do (or not do) to you. As Mark Twain once said, "A man who picks up a cat by the tail learns things he can learn no other way."

In 604 in particular, we will see Diana coming to the point of either pursuing violence and vengeance, and the path of self-destruction that goes with it...or something better. She will have to make that choice at the moment when it's absolutely the hardest for her to do it...but that's when what we do matters most, when the choices are most difficult. And that choice would not mean anything if you hadn't seen her anger leading up to that moment. It's the difference between playing the process and playing the result.

4. From your work on Babylon 5 as well as your very well-received run on Thor, you clearly have a love for mythology, both ancient and of your own making, and that’s already showing in Wonder Woman. Why did you decide to approach the character from the mythological angle as opposed to a more traditional superhero tale for your first story arc?

I wanted the blend of the mythological and the urban (to which she returns in 605) because I love that contrast. And again, this gets back to the Greek notion of "what is a thing unto itself?" There are a gazillion superheroes in the DC universe. There's only one Greek demi-goddess named Diana. So the key is to play to those strengths, letting the mythos inform the story without overwhelming it.

5. You said at the DC Panel at NYCC that you would keep writing WW ‘until you suck.’ Assuming you don’t suck and you continue on with the book, any chance of hints regarding what you have in mind for Diana once Odyssey is over?

Not a chance. Again, we're playing the process, not the result. Anyone who knows my work knows I'm all about process, and you blow that out of the water if you give out too much information in advance.

The last thing I'll say about the current arc, which is something I touched upon at NYCC, is that the framework for this story is a blend between the classic Greek tragic structure and a contemporary mystery. There's something going on here that's larger than the sum of its parts, and the clues are all over the place. Why can Diana see the Keres, and why is she able to hurt them? Why can't the gods show themselves? Why did they disappear around the same time she was brought out of Paradise Island? Why did Cerberus let her pass when only Hades has that power? Why was she able to inflict harm in the underworld when she should've been pure spirit?

(Some have suggested that the trip to Tartarus was so short as to be without point; but in point of fact it was used to set up a boatload of clues for later use. Oh, and as for why Diana didn't ask about her mother...anyone with even a passing familiarity with the Greek afterlife knows that there are basically nine worlds, including the Elysian Fields -- final destination for the brave and heroic -- Acheron, Erebus and others...with Tartarus at the very bottom of the list, the final point of destination for the very worst of the dead, criminals and murderers and the like. Charon worked the Styx on the border of Tartarus, so asking if he'd seen her mother in a place like this would be absolutely inappropriate. A little homework would have answered that question rather than presupposing sloppy writing.)

Going back to the questions and clues...why was Paradise Island attacked in the first place? By whom? Why did the gods remove their protection?

Once we have come to the other side of all those questions, Diana will have completed her journey, her odyssey...and when that is all said and done, I think that the ride will have been worth it, and the destination reached will be a salutary one to old and new fans alike. I wouldn't have taken on the job otherwise.

J. Michael Straczynski
__________________
Trials, Tribulations and Cookies

Sauron , Zigûr e os Zigurates

2010-08-28T17:49:00.001-07:00

Extraído do livro A Ciência da Terra-Média

INTERVIEW BILL MESSNER-LOEBS

2010-07-14T15:21:00.001-07:00

Entrevista deletada da Internet em francês. ( ótima pra incriminar o autor dos retcons espúrios que vandalizaram a continuidade da Wonder Woman durante oito anos.

C’est à Manchester, au cours de ce qui allait être la dernière UKCAC, que nous avons rencontré Bill Messner-Loebs, le créateur de JOURNEY et BLISS ALLEY, et le scénariste, entre autres, de FLASH, WONDER WOMAN, DR. FATE, et plus récemment du graphic novel Elseworlds WONDER WOMAN : AMAZONIA. Il a bien voulu répondre à nos questions, et sa carrière est si riche que j’ai dû, pour la première fois, retourner ma cassette en cours d’interview pour ne rien perdre.

HEROES: Commençons par la question traditionnelle: comment avez-vous débuté dans la bande dessinée?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: En fait, j'ai débuté en deux temps. J'avais en fait essayé de rentrer dans la bande dessinée pendant à peu près dix ans, sans beaucoup de succès, et en l'espace de quelques semaines, on m'a demandé de faire une histoire courte pour BIZZARRE SEX COMICS, chez Kitchen Sink, et une histoire en back-up pour CEREBUS THE AARDVARK; Mon histoire pour BIZARRE SEX s'appelait REX MASON, BOY TRANSVESTITE, et mon histoire pour CEREBUS était WELCOME TO HEAVEN, DR. FRANKLIN. Et je pense qu'elle a été suffisamment bien reçue pour que l'on me demande si je voulais faire une série régulière. Je crois que ce qui s'est passé, c'est que Denny essayait de solliciter ces histoires de complément pour CEREBUS sur une base régulière, et elle essayait d'en avoir une réserve, mais ils les utilisaient tellement vite que, quand on en est venu à moi, à chaque fois on commençait par me dire que c'était une histoire en trois parties, puis quand j'arrivais à la seconde partie, elle me demandait si je voulais en faire une histoire en quatre parties, et quand j'en arrivais à la troisième partie, si je voulais en faire une histoire en cinq parties. J'ai été là plus longtemps que n'importe qui pendant qu'elle rassemblait du matériel, et je pense que c'est une des raisons pour lesquelles les gens ont aimé cette histoire, qui était WELCOME TO HEAVEN, DR. FRANKLIN.

HEROES: Et de quoi parlait cette histoire?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Et bien, Benjamin Franklin meurt, va au ciel et découvre que Marc Aurèle est Dieu, et qu'il est fou, et c'est la raison pour laquelle les choses vont si mal. Donc, Benjamin Franklin doit renverser Dieu, et établir une démocratie républicaine.

HEROES: Au Paradis?

Bill MESNER-LOEBS: Oui!

HEROES: Ensuite, vous avez commencé JOURNEY. Comment avez-vous démarré sur ce projet?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Comme WELCOME TO HEAVEN, DR. FRANKLIN avait été si bien reçu, on m'a demandé de faire ma propre série. Et j'ai commencé à jouer avec l'idée d'un personnage de pionnier. Je l'avais dessiné dans mes carnets de croquis depuis un moment. Et il y avait deux choses qui me le recommandaient. La première, c'est qu'un pionnier a le même genre de caractère mythique qu'un super-héros, les gens s'identifient immédiatement avec lui, et savent exactement ce qu'il représente. Et son arrière-plan est presque entièrement fait d'arbres, au lieu d'immeubles. Et je savais qu'à l'époque, si je devais dessiner des immeubles, cela me prendrait une éternité. Cela me permettait donc de dessiner un arrière-plan un peu stylisé, et d'avoir quand même un certain niveau de réalisme.

HEROES: Puisqu'on en parle, quel genre de recherche avez-vous faites pour cette série?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Et bien, j'ai fait des recherches sur la période, bien qu'à l'origine, j'avais l'intention de placer la série dans les années 1830. Mais j'ai réalisé que le Michigan était trop peuplé à ce moment-là, mais c'est la raison pour laquelle Johnny Appleseed (1) et Edgar Alan Poe apparaissent: ils étaient contemporains de ce qui devait être la version de 1830. Puis je l'ai repoussé à 1810, ce qui le rapprochait de la Révolution Américaine, et me permettait d'avoir tous ces révolutionnaires et Hessois (2) d'âge moyen qui se promenaient dans le coin.

HEROES: Après ça, vous avez eu votre grand début chez DC. Comment cela a-t-il commencé?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: En fait, il y a eu une transition. La première série que l'on m'ait demandé de faire, c'était JOHNNY QUEST pour Comico. Et à nouveau, je crois que j'ai eu une situation très heureuse, par le fait que le concept de la série était qu'il y aurait plusieurs artistes qui se relaieraient, et un seul scénariste. Donc, pendant la première année, il n'y avait pas un artiste qui se concentrait sur JOHNNY QUEST, mais un scénariste, et c'était moi. C'était une bonne situation qui me permettait de construire ma carrière. On a commencé à me connaître comme le scénariste de JOHNNY QUEST, et c'est là que Mike Gold m'a connu. Et il m'a demandé de dessiner un épisode de WASTELANDs, qui était une anthologie d'histoires d'horreur psychologique, et j'en faisais une chaque mois. Et je lui ai demandé: "Est-ce que je ne pourrais pas écrire quelque chose à la place, parce que ça me prend trop de temps?". Ça lui est resté dans la tête, et quand Mike Baron a quitté FLASH, il m'a demandé de le remplacer.

HEROES: Parlant de JOHNNY QUEST, avez-vous rencontré Doug Wildey, le créateur de la série?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Oh oui, je l'ai rencontré une fois. Il aimait mes histoires d'aventures régulières. Il n'était pas très enthousiasmé par mes histoire à thème plus sérieuses. Et il détestait celles où apparaissait Bandit (3), parce qu'il détestait Bandit. Il avait fait deux ou trois couvertures peintes pour la série, et il me faisait remarquer avec une joie certaine, à un moment, que toutes ses couvertures montraient les personnages de JOHNNY QUEST avec de l'eau jusqu'à la taille, et il disait: "Vous savez où se trouve Bandit? Il est sous l'eau!"

HEROES: FLASH était un grand changement par rapport à ce que vous aviez fait avant.

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Oui, bien sûr. C'est vrai que je n'avais jamais écrit de séries de super-héros avant, mais quand on a grandi en lisant des comics, la plupart des bandes dessinées que j'ai lues étaient des bandes dessinées de super-héros, quoi que je puisse écrire. Et en fait, je lisais des comics quand on a fait revivre FLASH. Je me rappelle avoir vu les publicités avant que la série ne sorte.

HEROES: Puisqu'on en parle quelles ont été vos principales influences dans l'écriture et le dessin?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Je crois que ma plus grande influence, ça a été THE SPIRIT, de Will Eisner. Et j'ai aussi été influencé par les histoire de GREEN LANTERN/GREEN ARROW qu'ont faites Neal Adams et Denny O'Neil.

HEROES: Un des problèmes avec les personnages à super-vitesse comme Flash, c'est qu'ils peuvent tout faire très rapidement. Comment avez-vous surmonté ce problème?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Vous avez raison, c'est le problème que l'on a. Ce n'est pas simplement le fait qu'il va plus vite que n'importe qui, c'est qu'il peut contrôler le temps. Si on voit un film, par exemple, tout ce qui crée le suspense dans un film est pratiquement basé sur les notions de temps et d'espace. Vous appelez quelqu'un qui est à l'autre bout de la ville, et vous l'entendez crier, et il faut une heure et demie pour traverser la ville. Soudain, il y a un conflit dans l'histoire. Alors que si Flash entend quelqu'un crier à l'autre bout de la ville, il y va, et il n'y a pas de suspense. Et je crois que c'est la principale raison pour laquelle, même si tous les fans manifestent pour le retour de Barry Allen, le Flash idéal, aucun scénariste ne veut qu'il revienne, parce qu'il est intelligent, il est capable, il est expérimenté, et il n'y a absolument aucun conflit là-dedans. C'est une des raisons pour lesquelles j'ai gardé Wally un peu bête, parce que les gens ne s'attendraient pas à ce qu'il utilise sa super-vitesse d'une façon intelligente pour résoudre un problème, il devrait vraiment se battre pour y arriver. C'est pour ça qu'on a Impulse, maintenant, qui se jette dans les ennuis et en ressort continuellement, et à nouveau, il apprend à utiliser sa super-vitesse. une fois qu'on a appris à l'utiliser, on est Dieu.

HEROES: Puisqu'on parle d'IMPULSE, comment avez-vous démarré sur ce projet?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Et bien, je n'avais pas de boulot, et Mark Waid en avait trop. Et il m'a demandé si je voulais prendre sa place sur la série. C'était simple, il avait pris ma place sur FLASH, il était plaisant, et l'editor que j'avais sur IMPULSE était celui que j'avais eu sur WONDER WOMAN, donc, c'était un retour au foyer pour moi. De plus, quand on travaille sur des super-héros, on n'a pas toujours la chance de faire quelque chose qui soit drôle, et c'est donc agréable de faire quelque chose qui ressemble à une série d'humour.

HEROES: Qu'est-ce qui va arriver à Bart, maintenant?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Nous faisons maintenant une série d'histoires complètes, liées au temps, et au fait qu'il y a eu tous ces déversements de produits toxiques. Ce qui arrive, c'est qu'une grande famille criminelle de New York prend en charge l'élimination des déchets toxiques, et les dépose dans des endroits à l'intérieur du pays qui 'ont pas beaucoup de forces de police, et trop de territoire à surveiller. C'est un problème vraiment sérieux. Et ils le font à Manchester, en Alabama, où se déroule la série, et Bart est impliqué dans cette guerre entre deux familles criminelles rivales, et le Trickster, qui a évolué en une sorte de personnage à la Simon Templar, le Saint, dans une série d'escroqueries.

HEROES: Vous avez travaillé pour la ligne !MPACT, qui a échoué. Comment cela a-t-il commencé?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: !MPACT était intéressant parce que, nous ne le savions pas à l'époque, mais ce que nous essayions de faire, c'était créer Image Comics. DC avait acquis ces personnages de chez Archie, et l'idée, c'était de créer une ligne plus jeune de super-héros, de façon à amener de nouveaux gosses dans le marché. On s'est réuni en symposium, à White Plains, dans l'état de New York, et nous avons essayé de créer ce nouvel univers avec les personnages d'!MPACT, en quelque chose que les gosses aimeraient. Ce qu’il m'a semblé à l'époque, bien que ce fut difficile à exprimer, c'est que nous étions des gens de 30 à 40 ans, assis autour d'une table, et essayant de dire à des gamins ce qu'ils allaient vouloir voir, et nous faisions plus des personnages dont nous pensions qu'ils les aimeraient plutôt que des personnages qu'ils aimeraient vraiment. Parce que ce qui s'est passé, c'est que quand Image est arrivé, on a vu que ce que les gosses aimaient, c'étaient des gars de deux mètres quarante de haut, avec de gros flingues, comme dans les jeux vidéos. Alors, même si j'ai aimé ce que nous avons fait dans cette ligne, nous n'avons jamais semblé accomplir ce que nous avions voulu accomplir.

HEROES: C'est peut-être une des raisons pour lesquelles ça a échoué.

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Oui, je crois. Je pense qu'inconsciemment, nous essayions d'écrire plus jeune. Ça ne marche jamais vraiment. Les gens me posent des questions sur IMPULSE. Je le vois plus comme une série humoristique que comme une série pour les jeunes. Et je crois que les gosses préfèrent lire des comics écrits pour des adultes plutôt que des comics écrits pour des gosses.

HEROES: Il y avait aussi l'histoire de ces personnages, qui ont été considérés comme les pires super-héros de tous les temps.

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Oui. Nous avons gardé en quelque sorte l'histoire de certains de ces personnages, et nous avons changé complètement certains autres. Mon personnage, THE JAGUAR, avait été un archéologue, et on m'a demandé d'en faire un nouveau personnage, y compris en changeant ses pouvoirs, et tout le reste. C'était amusant. Ce que j'ai fait, c'était de l'écrire en quelque sorte comme BETTY & VERONICA (4), avec le Jaguar comme la gentille Betty, et un personnage à la Veronica, blonde et garce comme son adversaire, qui si l'histoire avait continué, aurait évolué en une sorte d'aide de camp (5). Et en fait, j'ai tellement aimé cette idée que je l'ai réutilisé pour MAXIMAGE, pour Image, quand on m'a demandé d'écrire cette série.

HEROES: Passons maintenant à DR. FATE. Vous avez fait un certain nombre de changements dans cette série.

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Et bien, j'en ai fait certains, et d'autres étaient déjà en place au moment où je suis arrivé. Il y avait eu une mini-série de DR. FATE avant celle-ci dans laquelle ils avaient en quelque sorte remballé les vieux personnages. Et personne ne savait exactement où ils voulaient aller à partir de là. Et ils ont finalement décidé qu'Inza devait devenir Dr. Fate. Alors, c'est ce que j'ai fait. Je n'ai donc pas choisi de faire cette partie, même si j'étais certainement d'accord. Ça arrive assez souvent dans les comics. Le freelancer ne prend pas toutes ces décisions sur la façon dont la série va se dérouler, ce sont les editors qui ont déjà décidé de la direction que va prendre la série, et ensuite ils cherchent quelqu'un qui soit compatible avec ces décisions. Et ça a certainement été le cas avec DR. FATE. Il me semblait qu'ils avait ce grand personnage mystique, et ils avaient porté le mysticisme aussi loin qu'ils le pouvaient avec la mini-série, et la série continue. Et en fait, le scénariste qui faisait la série avant moi, J.M. DeMatteis, avait demandé que la plupart des personnages secondaires, surtout les personnages mystiques quasi-divins qu'il avait créés ne soient pas utilisés par quelqu'un d'autre. Alors, quand je suis arrivé, j'ai dit: "Dans ce cas, j'aimerais faire des histoires plus réalistes pour marquer le contraste avec cette puissance cosmique." Que feriez-vous vraiment si vous étiez une vraie personne avec tous ces pouvoirs cosmiques incroyables à la Dr. Strange ? En fait, j'aimais beaucoup les histoires de DR. STRANGE qu'avait faites Ditko au tout début, quand il n'allait pas se battre dans d'autres dimensions et ne faisait qu'arrêter des voleurs de banques. Parce que quand on a un vrai sens de l'étendue de ces pouvoirs, on a tellement de numéros de DR. STRANGE dans lesquels lui et le Baron Mordo sont plongés dans une bataille cosmique, et leurs pouvoirs s'annulent, et ils ne font que se regarder case après case, pendant que des forces cosmiques se déchaînent à quelques centimètres de leurs fronts. Et pour moi, ça n'avait qu'un potentiel limité de distraction. Et quand on a ces grands pouvoirs, le héros dit: "Même si j'ai ces grands pouvoirs, je ne vais pas trop me mêler des affaires humaines", ce qui le met à l'abri des questions difficiles. Mais j'ai pensé que ce serait amusant de montrer pourquoi ce serait une mauvaise idée de faire ça, ou au moins pourquoi c'est compliqué. Une de mes séquences préférées, c'est quand Dr. Fate rencontre un gars sous l'emprise de la drogue, et qu'elle lui enlève sa dépendance. Elle le presse comme un tube de dentifrice, et sa dépendance à la drogue sort de lui sous forme de lézards et de serpents. Ce genre de choses étaient amusantes.

HEROES: J'avais beaucoup aimé le passage où elle changeait les députés en batraciens (rires)

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Oui, on a pu ainsi faire une histoire politique. Je pense que DR. FATE était aussi très amusant parce que je pouvais parler des gens ordinaires espérant résoudre des problèmes, et aussi parce qu'on voyait ce personnage puissant qui arrivait et disait à tout le monde ce qu'il fallait faire. Quand j'ai amené ce Seigneur de l'Ordre sous la forme d'un cadavre en putréfaction, c'était en quelque sorte ma plaisanterie sur ces guides psychiques que l'on voit dans les comics, vous savez, ce genre de personnage très puissant qui arrive et dit continuellement au héros ce qu'il faut faire.

HEROES: Pourquoi la série s'est-elle arrêtée?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Et bien, nous étions juste au dessus de la surface, juste au dessus de la limite à laquelle une série doit s'arrêter depuis que j'avais débuté. J'avais été capable d'arrêter le déclin, mais pas vraiment de le renverser. Et ils voulaient que la série devienne plus comme une série Vertigo, même si nous ne savions pas trop ce que ça voulait dire à l'époque. Ils voulaient que ça devienne plus mystique, un peu plus sombre. J'ai en fait écrit quelques histoires comme ça, et ils les ont toutes détestées. J'ai simplement décidé d'arrêter, à ce moment-là, j'écrivais l'équivalent de cinq séries, et j'allais m'occuper de WONDER WOMAN. C'est pour ça que j'ai décider de laisser tomber DR. FATE, et d'arrêter FLASH, en sachant que Mark Waid serait là pour reprendre cette série. Et j'écrivais aussi trois autres séries, sans savoir à ce moment-là qu’elles allaient toutes être arrêtées, et je me suis retrouvé avec seulement WONDER WOMAN.

HEROES: Parlant de WONDER WOMAN, comment avez-vous débuté sur ce projet?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: J'avais fait une histoire dans laquelle elle rendait visite à Dr. Fate, et l'editor avait aimé ma façon de traiter le personnage. Alors, quand George Pérez est parti, il m'a demandé si je voulais reprendre la série. Et c'est ce que j'ai fait.

HEROES: Vous avez fait subir un certain nombre de changements à Wonder Woman, entre autres en la faisant travailler dans un fast food.

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Oui, j'ai fait ça. Des fans de Wonder Woman m'ont dit qu'ils seraient prêts à marcher sur du verre pilé pour m'arracher la gorge avec les dents pour lui avoir fait ça. Ils pensaient que j'essayais de la rendre ordinaire. Mais moi, je pensais que je la montrais sous un bon jour, surtout parce que jusque là, on l'avait montré comme étant un peu au-dessus de tout ça. Elle passait et donnait des conseils aux gens, et n'avait jamais de problèmes personnels. Donc, en la coupant de l'Ile du Paradis, et en la forçant à gagner sa vie, et en montrant qu'elle était capable de le faire, je pensais que j'en avait fait une meilleure personne. Mais ils n'ont pas toujours été d'accord.

HEROES: Une des choses que j'ai le moins aimé était votre petit manque de considération en ce qui concerne la continuité de la série, notamment en ce qui concerne la date de la mort de Diana Trevor.

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Oh oui. Je l'ai surtout fait à l'époque de l'arc "The Contest". Quand on essayait de faire l'origine de Wonder Woman d'une façon sérieuse, on avait toujours un sérieux problème. Essayer de faire marcher cette compétition était en soi une compétition. Vous avez cette île, peuplé d'une centaine de personnes, toutes des femmes qui se connaissent toutes, et celle qui a des super-pouvoirs arrive masquée, et gagne la compétition, et surprise, c'est Diana! Non, ça ne va pas. Ce n'est pas tant que je ne voulais pas tenir compte de la continuité, je voulais trouver un moyen de faire marcher cette compétition, en la faisant être élevée sans super-pouvoirs parce que l'île elle-même les annulerait, ce qui lui permettrait d'avoir un véritable entraînement en combat, et ainsi de suite, et ça voudrait dire quelque chose de gagner cette compétition. Ça ne veut rien dire si elle est née avec tous ces avantages. Je devais donc trouver un moyen de les lui faire en quelque sorte mériter.

HEROES: Et bien, il semble que John Byrne n'ait pas tenu compte de ça lui-même.

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Oh. Et bien, on doit trouver un moyen de faire de ces personnages les siens. Et c'est la raison pour laquelle on découvre que la plupart des scénaristes ne lisent pas les séries après qu'ils les aient quittées. On ne veut pas avoir une profonde connexion psychologique envers l'histoire, parce qu'on veut donner une chance à l'autre gars.

HEROES: Il semble y avoir eu quelques questions sans réponse après que vous soyez parti de la série, comme comment les Amazones étaient-elles revenues sur l'île, ce qui est arrivé après qu'Artemis soit morte, et ainsi de suite.

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Oui, je crois que John Byrne l'a fait voyager à l'autre bout du pays parce qu'il ne voulait pas s'occuper trop de ces questions. Comme je n'avais jamais eu de vraie raison de revenir, je n'ai jamais vraiment su pourquoi toutes ces choses étaient arrivées. Je ne me suis jamais posé la question de savoir ce qui était arrivé après mon dernier numéro.

HEROES: Vous avez aussi fait EPICURUS THE SAGE pour Piranha Press. Comment cette idée vous est-elle venue?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: J'y avais réfléchi depuis longtemps, en fait. Même quand j'étais enfant, quand on arrivait au moment où on discutait de mythologie grecque, j'avais trouvé que quand on lisait les mythes, ils étaient hilarants, et la même chose s'appliquait à la philosophie, et ça m'amusait beaucoup. J'avais donc toujours en tête que si je voulais faire une histoire drôle, ce serait une manière de le faire. Et l'editor, Mark (...) est venu me trouver et m'a dit: "Je voudrais faire quelque chose de complètement différent des super-héros ou de tout le reste, quelque chose dont vous pensez que ça ne pourrait pas être publié ailleurs". Et je lui ai parlé de cette idée de philosophes grecs bagarreurs. Et il a pensé que c'était exactement ce qu'il avait à l'esprit, mais que ça ne pourrait peut-être pas être publié. Mais ça s'est avéré être publiable, même si c'était limite. Le raisonnement de Mark, c'était qu'il ne voulait pas seulement publier des choses qui n'avaient jamais été publiées auparavant, mais il voulait aussi en publier certaines d'une façon qui n'avait jamais été faite avant, avec une très grande qualité de production, et ainsi de suite. Et en y repensant, je crois que ça a peut-être été une erreur, parce que ça a rendu certains de ces livres si chers qu'ils étaient vraiment durs à vendre, alors qu'ils avaient des concepts déjà si difficiles. On avait des livres de 48 pages qui se vendaient à 35 dollars à peu près. C'était plutôt cher. Ça aurait pu tout aussi bien marcher en noir et blanc, je crois, au lieu d'être dans ces couleurs chères. En plus, il a encouragé Sam Keith à le faire à deux fois la taille d'un comic book ordinaire, comme un comic book des années 40. Sam travaillait sur de grandes planches, et quand elles étaient réduite, vous aviez deux fois plus de négatifs, publiés sur du papier très cher pour bien faire ressortir les traits. A nouveau, tout est devenu ruineux. Et j'ai parlé aux gens de Paradox à ce sujet l'autre jour, parce que je ne peux pas faire quoi que ce soit avec si ils font déjà quelque chose. Ils ont le droit de premier refus. Et leur sentiment était: "Et bien, c'est trop cher de le faire comme on le faisait avant, et si on le fait à moindre coût, il semblera qu'on recule". Donc, je ne sais pas ce qui va arriver avec.

HEROES: Puisqu'on parle de Sam Keith, pourriez-vous nous dire comment est né THE MAXX?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Et bien, Sam et moi nous connaissons depuis des années, et nous avions toujours voulu faire quelque chose ensemble. Je connaissais Sam avant même qu'il ne devienne un artiste. Il avait commencé à travailler dans un certain style en pensant qu'il m'imitait, sans réaliser qu'il était bien meilleur que moi. Il disait toujours: "Tu sais, Bill, j'essaye de faire ce que tu fais, mais je suis loin d'être l'artiste que tu es", et je répondais: "C'est vrai Sam, mais continue d'essayer, tu y arriveras". On avait parlé de faire quelque chose, et quand il a été engagé par les gens d'Image pour devenir en quelque sorte le onzième gars d'Image, on devait faire une histoire en six parties dans une anthologie. Et nous avons fait deux de nos parties, mais Liefeld et Lee n'ont pas fait les leurs. Et Jim Lee en a eu beaucoup de remords, et il a dit, de cette manière qu'ils ont tous chez Image: "Comme j'ai des remords que tu n'aies pas pu faire l'histoire qu'on t'avait promise, pourquoi n'aurais-tu pas ta propre série?" Donc, c'est comme ça que ça s'est passé.

HEROES: Pensez-vous que la série animée de MTV ait rendu justice au personnage?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Oh bon sang! C'était, comme on dit, géant! En fait, Je sentais que pour les premiers numéros du comic, nous n'avions pas exposé les choses aussi soigneusement que nous l'aurions dû. Je voulais avoir une autre chance de le refaire, mais ils voulaient faire l'adaptation la plus fidèle qui ait jamais été faite d'une bande dessinée, et ils ont fini par prendre les dialogues directement de la série. J'étais un consultant sur la série, ce qui voulait dire que j'ai écrit le premier épisode, comme un pilote de série télé, et j'ai essayé de paraphraser un peu et de rendre les choses un peu plus logiques. Et puis Sam m'a appelé, parce qu'il allait à Los Angeles toutes les semaines pour aider avec l'animation, et il m'a dit: "Tu sais, Bill, on fait le dernier épisode, et on a deux minutes à remplir. Et on se demandait si tu pouvais écrire ces deux dernières minutes." Et j'ai dit: "Je crois que je peux le faire". Et il a dit: "Pendant que tu fais ça, pourrais-tu expliquer la série entière, et le conclure d'une façon cohérente et satisfaisante, mais aussi laisser la fin ouverte au cas où ils voudraient renouveler la série pour la saison suivante? Et au passage, on en a besoin dans deux heures." C'est pour ça que Maxx parle au jardinier dans le dernier épisode de la série. C'était entièrement de ma faute.

HEROES: Parlons maintenant de votre dernier projet, AMAZONIA. Comment l'idée vous en est-elle venue?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Et bien, on m'avait demandé si je voulais faire un Elseworld sur WONDER WOMAN. Et j'essayais de trouver quelque chose qui aille avec le concept, celui-ci étant que Wonder Woman vient dans notre monde pour montrer aux hommes et aux femmes comment vivre ensemble, et pour combattre l'oppression des femmes par les hommes. Et dans la plupart des époques, dans la vie réelle, on n'a pas vraiment besoin d'un Elseworld pour montrer les femmes opprimées par les hommes. Donc, j'ai essayé de trouver un moyen pour qu'elles soient plus opprimées. En plus, je suis un grand fan de Sherlock Holmes, et Sherlock Holmes a combattu Jack l'Eventreur en cinq ou six incarnations différentes. Et tout le monde aime Jack l'Eventreur. Et je me suis dit:" Et bien voilà, pourquoi ne ferait-on pas ça?" Et pendant que je m'amusais à penser à ça, j'ai vu que dans beaucoup d'histoires, on parlait de Jack l'Eventreur comme d'un membre de la famille royale d'Angleterre, et ils disaient tous: "Oh mon Dieu, Jack l'Eventreur aurait pu devenir roi!" Et je me suis dit: "Et si on allait jusqu'au bout et qu'on le fasse vraiment devenir roi?" Maintenant, je n'ai pas complètement suivi cette idée, parce que je vis avec la plus grande anglophile au monde, et la plus grande amoureuse de la famille royale britannique vit sous mon toit. Et m'a femme m'a informé que notre mariage ne survivrait pas si je prenais le pauvre duc de Clarence, dont elle a prouvé, par pure et simple logique, qu'il n'aurait pas pu être Jack l'Eventreur, et elle n'allait pas le laisser calomnier. Et je ne vais pas le laisser calomnier. Et c'est comme ça que Jack l'Eventreur devient roi, même si il est en fait Américain. Et je suis toujours marié, et tout va bien dans le monde.

HEROES: Vous avez assombri le tableau sur le traitement des femmes à l'époque victorienne dans votre livre.

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Et bien, c'est ce que disent les gens, mais en fait, je n'ai même pas approché beaucoup des choses qui arrivaient réellement. J'ai montré des femmes qui portaient des petites chaînes de cérémonie, mais je n'ai pas montré de clitoridectomie, ou de femmes vendues dans la traite des blanches et étant violées en série, ou de femmes battues avec des bâtons. L'époque victorienne était intéressante, parce qu'il y avait les mêmes choses que nous avons. Il y avait aussi des mariages égaux, et il y avait des gens qui étaient larges d'esprit, et ainsi de suite, et on avait aussi ces gens incroyablement réprimés. Une des choses que je voulais faire, c'était d'amener certains des personnages mâles de l'époque, comme George Bernard Shaw, et Arthur Conan Doyle, et je voulais même montrer à un moment Doyle apprenant à Diana comme pages, comment être une détective. Mais j'ai réalisé que nous n'avions que 48 pages, et que nous devions avancer. Et je voulais donner le sentiment que les hommes étaient tout aussi piégés par le système que les femmes. Mais encore une fois, je n'avais pas le temps de montrer ça en autant de détails que je l'aurais voulu. Le résultat, c'est que nous avons maintenant des critiques de gens qui disent qu'une fois de plus, Bill Loebs écrit des histoires violentes et mauvaises dans lesquelles les hommes sont maltraités. Mais comme un de mes amis l'a dit, on n'a pas besoin de détester les hommes pour dire qu'il se passait des choses terribles dans l'Angleterre victorienne, rien que d'après l'histoire. Sans parler du fait qu'encore une fois, on doit écrire selon le concept du personnage.

HEROES: Parlons maintenant de votre dernier projet, BLISS ALLEY. De quoi parle l'histoire?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: La série met en vedette un personnage qui s'appelle Wizard Walker, un sans-abri qui découvre qu'il peut voir les choses que les chats peuvent voir, toutes les choses qui sont cachées dans l'air. Il peut voir les auras des gens, il peut voir leurs esprits animaux, qui dans son cas est un rat de 15 centimètres invisible et flottant dans l'air. Et il commence à découvrir d'autres parties du monde. Il y a un monde souterrain, avec des gens qui y vivent comme des gnomes. C'est comme une fantaisie, avec un certain degré de critique et de satire sociale. C'est un grand mélange de toutes sortes de choses, jetées ensemble, de toutes les choses que je peux dessiner.

HEROES: Vous êtes récemment revenu sur WONDER WOMAN avec Mike Deodato. Comment avez-vous commencé avec lui?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Je travaillais avec David Campiti, chez Innovation. Et quand il s'est fait virer de sa place d'editor en chef, il m'a dit qu'il allait fonder une compagnie qui représenterait principalement des Brésiliens, et il m'a montré un peu de leur travail. Et il m'a demandé si j'avais entendu parler d'une ouverture, car il avait du mal à convaincre les gens qu'on devrait donner une chance à ses artistes. Et je lui ai dit que nous avions continué pendant des mois sur WONDER WOMAN sans artiste régulier, et en un sens, c'est moi qui lui ait en quelque sorte obtenu le travail, bien que David ait dû faire le travail de vente. Et je crois que la partie la plus intéressante de tout ça, c'est que Mike Deodato ne parle pas anglais. Donc son partenaire et administrateur, lui lit le script debout dans son studio en portugais. Et quand on écrit à trois heures du matin, et qu'on écrit des phrases comme: "Wonder Woman blows her top" (6) ou :"Wonder Woman has a cow" (7), on se demande comment ça va pouvoir être traduit.

HEROES: Parlant de la différence entre les langues, vous a-t-il reproché le fait que vous ayez fait parler le Jaguar espagnol au lieu de portugais?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Et bien, j'espérais que j'écrivais du portugais. J'ai en quelque sorte découvert en plein milieu qu'ils devaient parler portugais. J'avais un petit dictionnaire anglais-espagnol chez moi, et j'ai essayé de trouver quelque chose en portugais, mais cette ligne !MPACT s'est effondré plutôt rapidement, et je n'ai jamais eu l'occasion de revenir en arrière et de réparer ça. J'avais un peu oublié ça. Ce qui est assez intéressant, c'est que des gens sont venus du Brésil à San Diego pour me rencontrer, et ils ne s'en inquiétaient pas, dans l'ensemble, ils étaient si excités à l'idée d'avoir une représentation de la culture brésilienne que le fait que j'ai occasionnellement tort ne semblait pas avoir d'importance pour eux.

HEROES: Mike Deodato a un style disons un peu controversé en ce qui concerne sa représentation des femmes. Qu'en pensez-vous?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Hum! Et bien, c'était un peu un choc de voir Wonder Woman dans ce maillot de bain très révélateur. Mais j'ai pensé qu'on ne pouvait pas non plus en faire trop de cas. Et le fait qu'avoir Mike sur la série m'a permis de payer ma maison m'a rendu un peu plus indulgent à l'égard de son style artistique que je l'aurais été autrement. Je sais qu'il y a eu des pages qu'on lui a renvoyées pour qu'il les redessine, pour qu'elles ne soient pas si explicites. Ma femme a une théorie: elle pense qu'au Brésil, c'est un maillot de bain très décent (rire).

HEROES: Quels sont vos futurs projets?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Et bien, je vais faire BLISS ALLEY sous forme d'album, et j'espère terminer WAR DRUMS, l'histoire de JOURNEY, également sous forme d'album, ce qui semble se vendre mieux maintenant que les séries elles-mêmes. Je vais faire directement des albums, au lieu de faire des séries de magazines. Je suis, comme on dit, en grande discussion avec Vertigo sur un sujet dont je ne peux pas parler pour le moment. Et c'est à peu près tout. J'espère terminer ce que je fais à présent, et continuer à travailler.

HEROES: Quel est le dessin le plus étrange que les gens vous ont demandé de faire à une convention?

Bill MESNER-LOEBS: Il y avait un gars, lors d'une convention à Detroit, qui demandait à tout le monde de lui dessiner une licorne qui vomissait. Ça, c'était plutôt étrange. Puis il y a les dessins habituels de Wonder Woman en bondage, ce pour quoi j'essaye habituellement de trouver une façon polie de ne pas les faire.

HEROES: Sur quel personnage que vous n'avez pas écrit ou dessiné auparavant aimeriez-vous travailler?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Hum! J'en ai fait un certain nombre. J'ai réalisé l'autre jour que je n'avais jamais fait Green Lantern, même si j'avais été l'un des gosses qui, à l'origine, après ses premières apparitions dans SHOWCASE, où on demandait d'écrire, avait écrit, et j'avais reçu en retour une carte postale de Green Lantern qui me remerciait d'avoir sauvé sa série.

HEROES: Que pensez-vous de ce qu'ils ont fait à Hal Jordan?

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: Et bien, en fait, j'ai rencontré l'editor, après ça. Il m'a demandé un petit dessin, je le lui ai donné, et j'ai écrit dessus: "Merci d'avoir détruit mon enfance". et il m'a dit: "De rien".

HEROES: Et bien, merci beaucoup pour cette interview.

Bill MESSNER-LOEBS: De rien, vraiment.

Interview réalisée par Gérard Morvan

(1) Célèbre personnage légendaire américain: coiffé d'une casserole, allant les pieds nus, ce vagabond introduisit la culture de la pomme et du pommier dans le nord-ouest américain.

(2) Mercenaires allemands à la solde du roi d'Angleterre pendant la Guerre d'Indépendance américaine.

(3) Le chien de Johnny Quest, pour ceux qui ne connaîtraient pas le dessin animé.

(4) Personnage de la B.D. ARCHIE. Betty est la gentille fille, Veronica la fille riche et gâtée.

(5) En français dans le texte.

(6) Littéralement: Wonder Woman fait sauter son couvercle. En fait, veut dire: Wonder Woman sort de ses gonds

(7) Littéralement: Wonder Woman a une vache. En fait, voir ci-dessus.

Peter Jackson Answers THE GEEKS!!! 20 Questions About Lord Of The Rings!!!

2010-06-25T12:26:00.001-07:00

Sunday, August 30, 1998

Well this will spur discussion for the next 3 months. Here's the answers to the questions you all sent in. Many of the questions are blendings of several questions into long-winded multi-part questions. Why'd I do this? Well, I received over 14,000 questions. You may have noticed Father Geek doing a lot of updating recently... well this was to facilitate me editing, blending and trying to get in front of Peter the most questions within a 20 question format. When I sent it to him, a response came back almost immediately with... "Jesus... give me a day or two." I really have enjoyed this little experiment of Peter's, and I'm sure that most of you out there would agree we should do it again. Also, with the 2 to 3 month intervals... well that allows Peter the time to get the scripts written, more work at the art department level, a production manager to begin mapping out the process, the hiring of crew members, talks with actors, etc etc.. So next time we'll learn even more. Thanks to Peter for sitting still for this, though it was his suggestion, now Peter enough questions go make our kick ass movies!!!

Before I get started, I'd like to thank all the folk who sent questions in. If the 20 that Harry has picked are representative, then you have thought hard about the difficulties of adapting this book. A lot of the concerns you raise focus on the same areas that we are currently grappling with.

I also must thank Harry for allowing me to commandeer his site. It's a bit like a scene in a war movie when a French family gets booted out of their farm house because the Allied Forces need to set up a command post! Using Harry's site was the only way I could imagine reaching all of you in an efficient way. I very much appreciate his co-operation and hard work in compiling 20 questions from the 14,000 he received.

After this brief warm shower together, Harry and I return to our different sides of the line - us trying to maintain secrecy ... and he using his low-life methods to publish it all on the net.

I hope this Q&A addresses some of your immediate questions and concerns, but please don't send Harry any more questions. I have to go to ground and do some writing. If you want to do this again, and Harry agrees to it, then it will be in 2 or 3 months time and I am sure you'll get plenty of warning.

Here we go ...

1. It seems that a ton of readers are concerned about the physical portrayal of the main characters within the ‘Fellowship’. Specifically the following: The use or lack of use of ‘small people’ to accomplish Hobbits, and the decision to use CGI to shrink folks. Then there is the ‘pointy eared’ elf thing. Not to mention whatever Gandalf is, how you plan to deliver dwarves. Basically the question is how do you plan on delivering the different types that make up the ‘company’? And why you decided to go in that direction, and is it ‘faithful’ to the look that’s been established by the cartoons, illustrators, etc?

As everyone has read, we have made a decision to portray hobbits by reducing "normal" sized actors. This decision was made for several reasons:

1/ It seems to be what Tolkien had in his mind, from the way he described hobbits.

2/ It gives us the greatest pool of actors to choose from.

3/ The hobbits are our chief heroes, who we must totally connect with over the course of 3 movies. That ruled out the use of CGI hobbits as I felt any artificial method of creating a character would be an impediment to our bonding with them. They would be a gimmick, rather than a real character.

Dwarfs like Gimli will either be a real little person, or a normal height actor reduced like the hobbits. A decision has yet to be made. Elves will be actors, but with a certain "Elven" look.

Hobbits, Dwarfs and Elves will probably all have subtle prosthetics, but these tests have not yet been done. I know that battle rages over pointy ears. We have yet to decide on the final looks for all these different races.

I do want to make them "real" ... not too fantasy-like or cartoony. They must be believable. My favourite illustration of a hobbit is in the edition of THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING with Alan Lee's illustrations. Look at the picture of Frodo and Gandalf sitting in Bag End. That's not just a good guide for how I imagine a hobbit - it's also a good reference for the tone or atmosphere I'm aiming for in the films.

2. Another major question that fans have had, has to do with the decision to make “THE LORD OF THE RINGS” prior to “THE HOBBIT”. Describe what made you decide to go with the trilogy first, what made you step over ‘THE HOBBIT’ and do you think that after your filmic journeys into Middle Earth with this trilogy, do you think you will want to visit Bilbo and his adventures from the first book?

United Artists have owned the US distribution rights to THE HOBBIT for many years (but not the right to actually make it). I know that Miramax approached UA a couple of years ago about doing some kind of partnership, but was not successful. That made up Miramax's mind to do THE LORD OF THE RINGS first.

I am happy to be doing the trilogy first, since it is much more complex and interesting than THE HOBBIT. THE HOBBIT has a very simple story with very little character development. It would actually be harder to adapt into a satisfying movie than THE LORD OF THE RINGS (and that has not been easy!).

New Line Cinema have the right to make THE HOBBIT (UA still owns the distribution rights), and have every intention of doing it following the trilogy. I don't know if I would be involved. It depends on my mental condition in 3 years!

3. There seems to be quite a bit of doubt about ‘only’ having $130 million to make the trilogy. How do you plan to stretch that money out, while still giving these films the rich world that Tolkien envisioned? I.E... Cite examples of enhancing New Zealand locales with CGI, How much practical effects work vs CGI, and what will you try to do practical and what will you try to do CGI?

This is a very understandable concern. Let me explain:

Dollar for dollar, New Zealand is a cheaper place to make movies than the US. A camera that costs US$3000 per week to rent in the States may only cost NZ$2000 here. Add to that, the exchange rate savings ($US1 = $NZ2) and that camera in New Zealand only costs $US1000 to rent - a third of the price. Following me?

It basically means that the $US130m will buy 3 movies that have the screen value of closer to $350m. It is only this economy that has made THE LORD OF THE RINGS trilogy affordable. Believe me, nobody in Hollywood would commit $350m to make 3 movies back-to-back. It would never happen. These books have been "unfilmable" for 45 years, and would continue to be unfilmable.

But please don't be concerned about the "quality" of these movies. It is enough money to make 3 mind-blowing films! There will be money on screen to compare to anything that has ever been made.

4. This one comes from Julian of Sydney... Though he plays a massive underlying role in the books (he is the Lord of the Rings after all...), the character of Sauron's appearance (the Dark Lord) is never described in any detail (except for his catlike, yellow eyes [windows into nothingness] and his burning hot, black skin - black as in not african american black, but jet black). Also there is no direct dialogue with Sauron in the book, only flashbacks to historical events ie. his interrogation of Gollum, his fight with Isildur when the One Ring is taken along with his mind-communication through the Isenguard Palantir orb. So, my question is - how will Peter depict Sauron visually in the movie, and what will his voice sound like? I think part of the reason why Sauron was so intriguing and impressive as a character in the books, was very much because his presence was always felt, rather than personified as one being - the reader was left pretty much to imagine what he may have looked like. I can see that Peter will probably have to portray him in the movies, but I just hope he doesn't make him into a stereotypical cinematic villain. After all Sauron's power and historical descent from goodness to hellish evil, makes Satan look like a cute little puppy dog... And remember one of the biggest and most powerful cinematic scenes will inevitably be the party's confrontation with the Balrog in Moria - but the Balrog was a mere servant of Morgoth and then Sauron.

This is a great question, and one that we have been grappling with for 18 months. We still don't have a definitive answer. The Sauron of the books is sketchy at best, which makes it hard to turn him into a screen villain to carry 3 movies. Imagine not really seeing Darth Vader for all 3 Star Wars films. You just can't do it.

We obviously have Sauron's various emissaries to represent him, but just how Sauron himself appears is still a puzzle we are trying to solve. I agree that you can't reduce him to being a big guy striding around in black armour - but he cannot be limited to a flaming eye either. It's tough. We'll keep working on it.

5. Lots of people wrote in with this one, so I’ll summarize it on up. You mentioned in your statement that you want to make movies that you think Professor Tolkien would be proud of. What about the Tolkien estate? How closely are you working with Christopher Tolkien and what is your relationship with him going to be during this project? If you have talked with him about the project, what has he thought thus far?

We are dealing with the "estate", rather than Christopher personally. They have made their position very clear: While they are in no way opposed to a film(s) being made, they do not want to be involved.

The reason is basically simple: if they had any involvement, then the films would become "official" - in other words, they would be seen as being endorsed by the estate. This is a situation that the estate does not want, as they consider themselves to be protectors of Tolkien's written word, not film makers. I don't think the estate will be reading scripts or commenting on the movies. We keep them informed on progress, which they appreciate, but they want their involvement to be very arms length.

I said something here in NZ in an interview, which is worth repeating: You shouldn't think of these movies as being "THE LORD OF THE RINGS". THE LORD OF THE RINGS is, and always will be, a wonderful book - one of the greatest ever written. Any films will only ever be an INTERPRETATION of the book. In this case my interpretation. The Tolkien estate has no reason to want to get involved in somebody else's interpretation of the Professor's work.

6. Here’s one of the chief fears from fans, and lots of them are curious about what you think. Fantasy film has been with us straight from the beginning. It has been mined by Korda, Fairbanks, Harryhausen, Pal, etc. At that time their films were quite successful. But in the last twenty years the fantasy film has nose-dived into granite. What is wrong with the modern fantasy film, what is missing, and how is this going to be any different from the parade of fantasy duds that have been kicking sand in the face of fantasy lovers for a generation now?

One of my chief reasons for wanting to spend nearly 5 years of my life making these films has been that I don't think that fantasy has been well served by cinema. So I agree with your comments. I can't get into a deep debate about the last 20 years of fantasy, but I have been disappointed by the films as well. Either the style has been wrong, or often the scripts have been terrible. Starting out with strong scripts (and we are obviously dealing with great material) will put us ahead of a lot of other fantasy films. Not making the movies self-consciously fantasy will help too.

7. This comes in from Chyren, and is echoed by a good 40 others.

“Given that the books in LOTR are long and deeply indebted to Tolkien's technique of creating 'Literary Depth' by having a complex backstory, how can this be even slightly presented in a film version? In other words, LOTR was the end-tale of a huge three-millennium history of Middle-Earth. How can you allude to this on screen without just creating another Sword & Sorcery style crappy Willow film that is just plain confusing?

A good comment, and one that we feel strongly about too. As we have written drafts of THE LORD OF THE RINGS, we have layered in more and more depth with each subsequent draft. Some of it is important to the story (Isildur, Elendil, etc) and some is not. However, it creates the feeling of a real world. No movie can ever go into the depth than Tolkien did obviously, but we are going to use prologues, flashbacks and narration to paint a picture of Middle-earth that will hopefully be more than superficial.

Not being confusing is vital. That has been a fault of many fantasy films. We have to make movies that both readers and non-readers can enjoy and understand (I know the concept of having to cater to non-readers is frustrating, but it is important. Don't worry - we won't allow it to "dumb-down" the material). There are ways of doing that, and I am confident we will get there, without compromising the integrity of the work too much. It's a huge help to have 3 films to work with.

"AND..the books themselves are not structured to easily equate to a screenplay. Most of the first book is a gentle stretch of journey and masses of exposition (which occurs mainly when the Hobbits reach Elrond's House). There not much full-on action or even interesting stuff until the end of the second and third books. How much junk are you going to have to cut out? How much of the books will ACTUALLY reach the screen?”

It is true that most of the cuts will come out of the first book. We have to reach Rivendell a little quicker than the book does, as that is the point that the story picks up. I don't agree that there's not much interesting stuff in THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING, but it does lack a urgency. That is one of the biggest problems with adapting the books - Tolkien gave his characters a fairly leisurely journey - I don't mean the length of the journey, but rather the lack of dramatic tension, especially pre-Rivendell. For the movies, we will have to make motivations a little tighter and more urgent. We have to focus on The Ring, Sauron and the threat to Middle-earth. There is not much room for other stuff that is not directly connected to this narrative spine.

“Chyren comments: I realize that movie making is totally different from the art of a book, and that books can't be translated onto the screen totally. That's me, I know these things. You do realize, don't you, that whatever you do, some percentage of rabid Tolkien fans are always gonna attack you for 'butchering' their bible?

I'm in no doubt about that. Remember ... it's just my interpretation.

God, I wouldn't be in your shoes for quids, mate! Still, as long as it's better than that Ralph Bakshi debacle, I personally don't mind what you do!”

Making it better than the Bakshi version would be good.

8. Probably the most asked question, even though you asked not to ask about it, is about Casting. So this question won’t be “Who is Gandalf” “Who is Aragorn?” Instead I’m going to try to weasel some info out of you that will stir the debate pot a bit. What is your casting philosophy going to be with this series of films. For example, while I was on THE FACULTY set, Elijah Wood often talked to me about this project. He cited over and over about how much he loved the books, and how he’d love to be anything in it. This is most likely a feeling that a lot of talent in Hollywood will have. Will you, if talent lowers it’s wages, cast big name actors in smaller parts? (ie Sam Jackson in Star Wars Episode One) Or do you plan on avoiding the Where’s Waldo style of casting?

The basic philosophy is to cast unknowns as the hobbits and use better known actors for the smaller roles, i.e. Elrond, Theoden, Denethor, etc. I would be happy casting unknowns for all roles, as fresh faces will bring a sense of reality to the films, however I'm sure New Line will want some names. We won't be able to afford huge stars. Sean Connery won't be Gandalf (one of the most enduring pieces of net mythology). We couldn't afford him, he wouldn't live in NZ for a year, and I don't think he's right for the role. I love Connery, but I want Gandalf to be fresher than that. I like the Patrick McGoohan idea somebody mentioned ... that type of thinking is the right way to go. We have a couple of other strong ideas for Gandalf (I won't say who, but I've never seen their names on the net). We will no doubt audition a 100 actors to find the ideal Gandalf.

The idea of "stars" stepping forward and declaring themselves Tolkien fans is interesting ... let's see what happens.

Depending on the answer, is this because of a sound you want to the dialogue? And speaking of dialogue will it be in Tolkien’s tongue?

We have written the scripts in a reasonable "Tolkien" style ... on occasions using his dialogue verbatim. The older characters, i.e. Gandalf, Theoden, Denethor are pure Tolkien in their dialogue style. The younger hobbit characters slightly less so, but still not hip or modern. Sam will be pure Sam, and Gollum will be pure Gollum in style.

We will use other languages, particularly Elvish, on occasion, with English sub-titles.

9. Another major vein of curiosity has been the scale of these films. Using terms that will light our imagination and paint a picture for us, how big will these films be? This involves the scale of battles, vistas, creatures.

They will be very epic in scale - but one of the great things about THE LORD OF THE RINGS is the fact that they are very grounded in character and relationship. So imagine a tight personal, very emotional story set against sweeping vistas, huge cities and vast armies.

The battles will be the biggest you have ever seen (I promise).

We have two wonderful artists working for us on conceptual designs ... Alan Lee and John Howe. Both have done many Tolkien paintings before, and I loved their interpretation of the characters and places. We are creating original designs, not copying their earlier art, but a look at the previous work of Alan and John's will give you a strong sense of the visual style I am aiming for.

It also deals with the texture of the film, the aspect ratio and the score. What are your thoughts on how you’ll bring this to screen?

We will shoot in Super 35, giving us a 2.35 ratio. We have flirted with the idea of 70mm, but the problems with CG effects at that resolution are too daunting.

The score will be classical sounding. I'd like a create a Celtic feel without being Celtic if you get what I mean ... something non-cliched. No composers have been considered yet. There are no plans to use any of the existing Tolkien-inspired music.

10. Jason out of Australia had this question for ya: “Will any of the poetry/songs in Tolkien’s work be kept in the films?” And to follow up on it, if you do keep them how will you portray them?

There will be a little of it, but not much. A little on screen, a little on the soundtrack. It's a difficult thing to work into a dramatic telling of the story.

11. Given the massive following these books have, and the fact that this is the number one most inquired question, and the fact you’ve stated that you’ll need 15,000 extras for certain scenes, I’ve chosen Mike of Finland to ask the question. “Where and when will the casting take place?

It will start in October in LA, London, Australia and New Zealand.

What should I do to appear in the film?

You would need to audition and be the very best person for that particular role, out of the 100 - 200 actors that we will test for each character.

Do I need an agent to be considered for a speaking role? Do you hire only professionals for the major parts or do qualified amateurs have a chance as well?

There are no rules, but you would have to connect your nearest casting director and convince them you were good enough.

What requirements do you have for the extras?” Of course I have to admit that just about everyone I know wants to be an orc, it’s akin to being a stormtrooper. The surest way to increase tourism to New Zealand is to announce a desire for extras, and there will be fans booking flights instantly.

We will find our extras in the New Year. They will be cast in New Zealand and will have to be precise physical types depending on if it's for Orcs, Elves, Men, etc. It is possible that we may approach the army for most of our extras.

12. This question comes from Ryan of New Zealand: “A lot of things are not described explicitly in the books, but hinted at or told second hand, and I'd like to know how you will go about showing us show us those things.

Some of the "second hand" stories will be told on-screen in a more straightforward chronology. Others will be left as narration. You will definitely be seeing a lot of things dramatised on film that Tolkien related as expositionary dialogue.

Please tell me whether the Balrog will be a solid creature or a shadowy one, and whether it will be winged,

We are still working on the Balrog designs. He will be a real creature, but we will try very hard to capture the feel that Tolkien describes in this sequence. Our designs have wings at the moment, but that can be changed if it is not correct.

whether Legolas - who is never really described - will have blond hair and pointy ears like all those Dungeons and Dragons freaks out there picture him,

Don't know yet. It will start with casting an actor and working from there on his final look.

and whether we will get to see - perhaps in a flashback - the combat of Gandalf and the Balrog after they fall from the bridge in Moria,

I don't think so.

and likewise if there will be visual flashbacks of the ent's storming of Isengard,

Yes, that will be seen.

and of the history of Middle-earth as related in various parts of the story by Gandalf, Elrond, and Aragorn?

Most of the Middle-earth history we show will be related to events important to our immediate story, i.e. Isildur's death, defeat of Sauron during the Second Age and the history of Gollum and the Ring.

We will be detailing some of the Elven history as well as a sense of the Numenorians and the rise, and decline, of Gondor. That will mostly be in narration and not on-screen.

13. This comes from Sir Etch-a-Sketch: “Describe the tone that you will be using to tell this story. You’ve stated that you don’t see it as a Fantasy Film, but as telling a true story. What do you mean by that, and cite examples.”

It might be clearer if I described it as an historical film. Something very different to Dark Crystal or Labyrinth. Imagine something like BRAVEHEART, but with a little of the visual magic of LEGEND. (LEGEND had a lackluster script in my view. It looked great, but the visual style was too unreal, overwhelming and not suitable for this story).

It should have the historical authority of BRAVEHEART, rather than the meaningless fantasy mumbo-jumbo of WILLOW.

14. Jacob of W. Virginia asked this one, which is echoed by about 20 others. “What types departures will you be taking with the telling of the story and how did they come about?”

This is the 64 thousand dollar question I guess!

I'm not going to answer this in huge detail, as we are still working on the scripts. We have about 300 pages written as 2 long movies. We now have to convert them into 3 scripts of maybe 110 pages each - so we do have a little more room to explore new ideas.

Our philosophy is simple. We don't want to make any radical changes to the basic events or characters in the books. So Sam will NOT become a girl (another piece of rumour-mill bullshit that's been floating around for a year), or have a gay relationship with Frodo, or anything silly like that.

We will have to remove certain events or characters, but they will be clean lifts. As somebody pointed out earlier, THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING will need the greatest pruning.

Any changes that we do make will be centered on developing characters or events in the spirit that Tolkien created them, but maybe taking them further than he did. For example, the Aragorn/Arwen romance is a lovely part of the story ... but if it was filmed exactly as Tolkien wrote it, they would have maybe 10 minutes screentime together over 6 hours of film. So we have to find a way to include Arwen in more of the story, to have a chance at creating a meaningful screen romance. However, we won't do anything radical like adding her to the Fellowship, as that would be departing too much from what we all know and love. It's a fine line that we walk.

15. To gore or not to gore. There are gigantic battles in this film, how will you film these and what is the threshold of gore for the films?

These films will be PG13, but I would like them to be a hard PG13. The battles can't be BRAVEHEART violent, but we could maybe think about a slightly "harder" version for laserdisc release.

16. In getting New Line to sign on the dotted line, it has been said that their faith came from the script and the reel of tests that you and WETA showed them. What was on this reel, and what work has Weta and the 50 some odd people that have been laboring away come up with?

When we talked to studios about getting involved, we screened a 36 minute video documentary we made very quickly before we left. This documentary style video had interviews with key crew and design people and lots of footage of design paintings, models, armour and CG tests.

Cool stuff included on the tape: An Uruk-Hai in full armour and prosthetics, and Orc make-up test, models of Helm's Deep and Rivendell, marquettes of Elven armour and weapons, Gollum marquettes, a Cave Troll and a Balrog concept. CG tests included a CG Troll and a couple of huge Helm's Deep battle shots using a piece of WETA software called MASSIVE that has been developed over the last 2 years expressly to achieve huge battle scenes for THE LORD OF THE RINGS. MASSIVE allows us to have 200,000 CG extras that we don't animate, but they use a complex form of Artificial Intelligence to fight each other. You basically press a button, sit back and watch these huge battles unfold before your eyes. It's amazing and a little frightening as it ushers in a new era in CG effects.

Bob Shaye watched the tape in total silence and then declared that he wanted to make 3 movies. Bob deserves the credit for making a trilogy ... it was his idea.

The 36 min tape would be a great addition on a laserdisc box set.

17. What made you go, “Peter Jackson needs to make THE LORD OF THE RINGS”? What are you most excited about this project?

It gives me a chance to break new ground in the movies. Every film genre has been done well over the last 100 years, but not this type of fantasy story. If we get it right, it will be the first time. No film maker could ask for a greater challenge than that.

18. How open will this project be? Meaning what types of things will you be showing us fans in the years leading up to this film.

It will be like the SW Trilogy I suppose. Expect the same level of secrecy/revelations. I will try and kept a steady stream of information flowing. I know how frustrating it is.

How quickly do we get to see designs, models, sketches, stills, trailers, toys, a rough cut, etc...

I don't know the answers to that ... a trailer? That seems a million years away to me right now. New Line will control all of this and our relationship with them is only just beginning.

19. Richard of New York asks: "Will the films be titled “Fellowship of the Rings” “Two Towers” and “Return of the King” or will you go with LOTR1, LOTR 2, LOTR 3? What do you theorize the running time to be?"

I assume that we will use the book titles, probably with THE LORD OF THE RINGS kinda of a wrap around title, like STAR WARS.

For those who are interested, when we were making 2 movies with Miramax, we were thinking of calling them THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING and THE WAR OF THE RING.

I imagine the films will have an approx 6 hour running time.

20. What gets you shaking like a kid on Christmas Morning on this project? In otherwords, when you look at the films, what are you dying to capture on film, and how will you do it?

These types of intangible questions are the toughest. I guess I'm lucky to have only one!

I want to take movie-goers into Middle-earth, in a way that is believable and powerful.

Imagine this: 7000 years has gone by. We take a filmcrew to Helm's Deep ... it's now looking a little older, but still impresses as a mighty fortress. The Art Dept set to work, patching up holes and removing tourist signs. The current owner strikes a hard bargain, but New Line money finally gets us permission to film there for 6 weeks. Rohan heraldry is studied and faithfully reproduced. Theoden's original saddle is in a museum - far too valuable to use in the movie, but an exact copy is made. Archeological expeditions have unearthed an incredibly preserved mummified Uruk-hai carcass. We make exact prothestic copies of these viscous killers ... use CG to give us a 10,000 strong army. We have cast actors who look like Aragorn and Theoden. In an amazing casting coup, Legolas has agreed to return from Valinor with Gimli to recreate their part in this cinematic retelling of the events at the end of the Third Age. They stand on the battlements of the Deeping Wall, wind blowing in their hair, leading a group of extras proudly portraying the brave garrison of Rohan soldiers ... Uruk drums roll up the valley ... huge lighting rigs flash simulated lightening ... rain towers send gallons of water into the air ... on an assistant director's signal, twenty 35mm cameras start rolling simultaneously ... the battle of Helm's Deep is about to be captured on film.

Sure, it's not really THE LORD OF THE RINGS ... but it could still be a pretty damn cool movie.

Cheers, Peter J

Peter Jackson Answers THE GEEKS!!! 20 Questions About Lord Of The Rings!!!

2010-06-25T12:07:00.000-07:00

Sunday, August 30, 1998

Harry here, with the results of the 2nd Peter Jackson Q & A about THE LORD OF THE RINGS. Peter and you fans did a wonderful job with this, and well.... I am sure you will be pleased with the results you will see below. Peter will be in RED and the questions will be in BLACK, to make it as plain as possible. When you click on the TALK BACK function, your TALK BACK will be posted to the first page you clicked on, to see this Q & A. That way we won’t be crowding this already stuffed page.

Without further ado, here’s that guy that will be bringing us THE LORD OF THE RINGS trilogy, Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeter Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaacksonnnnnnnn....
PJ: Here we go again! Before I launch into the questions, let me bring you up to speed with where my brain is at. As most of you know, we had developed LotR as two films for Miramax, and we're now reworking the material as three movies for New Line.

As a result, we are in the process of rethinking the structure and narrative, and making some quite substantial changes to what we had done before. I mention this simply to put my answers in context: we have written one draft of The Fellowship of the Ring, we're half way through The Two Towers and haven't even started The Return of the King. Therefore, I'm doing my best to address these questions before the trilogy is actually written. We will be doing several more drafts of all three scripts before any shooting begins, so please understand that while I will give you accurate information based on what I know today, things will continue to change and develop over the next few months.

1. Alright, let’s kick this Q & A off with a good ol intelligent concern. For me, this question really gets down to the tone and seriousness of the film as Denethor is... well... an amazingly tragic character, and his sons are even more so. But Bonny here gets to it far better than I....

“I am very concerned about the way Denethor is going to be portrayed. In the Rankin/Bass production, he only appeared in one scene--the scene where he incinerates himself--and he is portrayed as a one-dimensional madman. (And Faramir is nowhere to be seen.) However, I always felt there were more dimensions to the character that needed to be explored, I saw him as a very tragic character under the circumstances: the death of his older son Boromir, the conditions of his office, his eminent removal, the assault on his city, and the seemingly inevitable death of his younger son Faramir. So the question is this: Will Denethor be portrayed as a madman, or will he be given the full dimensions he has in the novel?

PJ: I agree with you. In our old two film screenplay, Denethor is probably a little one dimensional and I think we can do a lot better when we write The Return of the King, which we will start in a few weeks. It is easy to portray him simply as a mad villain, but layering a tragic subtext throughout his scenes will be far more interesting.

The way that we often write (not just this project, but others) is to provide different layers over subsequent drafts ... i.e write the villain in one draft; get that working, then go back over the scenes and humanise him in the next draft. It makes it much easier when you're dealing with a huge volume of material.

By the way, I've never seen the Rankin/Bass "RotK", so if anyone can tell me where I can get it, I'd be very grateful. I am curious.

Also at the beginning of The Two Towers, when Boromir is killed, are you going to do it like the book, beginning with Aragorn and having him find that Boromir has been shot, or will you actually show him being shot with arrows?”

PJ: We are running that sequence in real time, actually showing him defending Merry and Pippin and getting shot. We're also sliding that sequence into the end of the first movie.

2. Bonny had this second paragraph of questions, that really gets into the structure of the storytelling, and whether or not it will mirror the non-linear story telling of the dear Professor’s. Here’s Bonny again....

“The Fellowship of the Ring is told in a very linear format, but The Two Towers and The Return of the King jump around in time a bit. (ROTK begins at Minas Tirith, then jumps back to the previous day, according to the time lines in the back.) They also split the novels into two halves: one half devoted solely to the battles in the west involving Merry and Pippin, the other half devoted to Frodo and Sam. Will the films follow this format, or tell the stories sequentially, integrating the two halves?"

PJ: We will not be following the "Book Three, Book Four" type format. We will be intercutting between the various storylines. In fact, we are grappling with intercutting between Frodo & Sam, and the events at Edoras and Helm's Deep right now in our work on The Two Towers.

"I suppose I should include this also: the two productions I have seen (okay, one was radio) both include Gandalf's capture by Saruman. Will this be seen as part of the first half of the film, or be told, as in the book, as a flashback during the Council of Elrond?"

PJ: At the moment, we have the best of both worlds: we are showing Gandalf's capture by Saruman in "real time", but showing his escape as flashback during the Rivendell council.

"Also, will you be including Tom Bombadil? The Ralph Bakshi production cut it out, as did the BBC radio drama.”

PJ: At this point in time Bombadil is out. The main reason is not just time or pace, but one of simple narrative focus ... the Bombadil sequence has so little to do with Sauron or the Ring, it is difficult to justify the screen time. It simply doesn't give us any vital new information. A very simplest rule of thumb that I use in movie storytelling is to try and further the story with each new scene.

I'm flicking through our Fellowship script ... it is 138 pages long. The Hobbits leave Hobbiton on page 30, and arrive at Rivendell on page 63. Even that 33 pages on the road feels a little long and will probably get trimmed in our next draft.

3. Alright, now we move on to the accents. Leah E. had the following to say...

“I'm really curious to know whether there is going to be any consistency in the accents of the characters, and if so what accents they are going to use. In (my) ideal world, Frodo, Bilbo, Pippin, and Merry would speak English Country Squire and Sam would speak English Country Bumpkin--it seems important since the hobbit world is so closely linked to the idealized English countryside. Then if the other species had accents peculiar to themselves, that would be pretty cool. Or failing that, it would be GREAT if no one spoke with an American accent as that often seems to bring fantasy worlds crashing down. I am American, by the way. I just don't think it would suit Tolkien. Thanks! Leah E.”

PJ: My preference is to use English accents as I think an American accent would feel as out of place in Middle-earth. If you are making Braveheart or Rob Roy, a King Arthur, or Robin Hood movie, then a basic asthetic sense says that American accents are not appropriate (as in Costner's Robin Hood). The Lord of the Rings is a classic English story. However, I think that New Line are concerned that having no American accents will alienate a US audience, so that debate has yet to be resolved. There may be a way of figuring something out.

4. Alrighty, here comes the ‘casting’ question out of the group. The following comes from Ivenshang:

“You have said repeatedly that you want unknowns for the Hobbits and would tolerate more famous (but inexpensive) people for the supporting cast. Define famous (Sean Connery is obviously famous, but would Jeremy Northam qualify?)"

PJ: With apologises to Jeremy Northam, I would not define him as famous! Not today at any rate.

"define unknown: are these hobbits-to-be newcomers with little experience (hence dicey prospects for the heavy duty acting required later in the saga) or simply professional actors who haven't gotten a big break before?"

PJ: Both of those would apply. I like working with "unknowns". It can be dicey, but also hugely satisfying and exciting. Kate Winslet had never been in a film before Heavenly Creatures, and who had ever seen Ralph Fiennes before Schindler's List? These people are out there ... somewhere in the world is the perfect Frodo and perfect Sam ... and we will find them!

"and also can you confirm or deny the following casting rumors: Patrick Magoohan as Gandalf; Kate Winslet as Arwen or Eowyn; Christopher Lee as Gandalf, Saruman or Denethor; Charlton Heston as Denethor, Gandalf or Theoden; Sam Neill as Aragorn?”

PJ: None of those rumours are true. At this point in time, NO RUMOURS ARE TRUE! If you hear rumours, then you can safely assume they are 100% FALSE!

No "name" actors, or their agents have been approached in anyway. That's not to say that any of the above actors would not be great for the trilogy. Several of them we would seriously consider ... it just hasn't happened yet.

We started casting in Dublin and London before Christmas and will ramp up first thing in the new year, with casting spreading into LA, Australia and New Zealand. At this stage, we are auditioning lessor known actors for all the major roles. In March we will review the results and then strategise with New Line about where to place "name" actors ... and who those actors might be. So assume any "rumours" between now and March to be hogwash.

And from Harlequin will you be working or casting any past Peter Jackson cast folk like “Jake Busey (my favorite for Legolas: agree or disagree?), Clive Merrison, Jed Brophy, Peter Dobson, Timothy Balme?”

PJ: I would love to work with any of those actors again. The Lord of the Rings has to be the ultimate example of the saying "the right actor for the right role" and that's the philosophy we will follow. We will find and cast the right actors for the very specific roles that LotR requires. Whether I have worked with them before, is a secondary consideration. So the answer at this stage: I don't know.

Also Peter, I’ve been being deluged with e-mail about casting for a long long time. And perhaps the question that most came to my mind about it is this. When George Lucas was casting STAR WARS, he assembled multiple ‘groups’ of actors to see how the chemistry was between them. As they went through various readings the pool was narrowed down to the group we finally got on screen. How are you assembling your final ‘group’?

PJ: That is sound thinking, especially for an "ensemble" cast - which the Fellowship obviously is. Geography might go against us ... if we have a favourite Frodo in London, a Sam in Sydney, a Merry in LA and a Pippin in NZ, then it will be hard to get them together during the auditioning. We will see. On Heavenly Creatures we got around that by having Kate read a scene in London and Mel read a scene in NZ and then we cut the two performances together on video to get a sense of what they were like as a couple.

5. Now we move on to the weapons and armor of LORD OF THE RINGS....

“Do you intend to have your people research bladed-weapon fighting so that the swordfighting, axe hacking etc looks believable, or are you just going for the Phantom Empire approach (ie let the actors do their own thing with the weapons)"

PJ: We will make it look believable. One of our artists, John Howe is a member of one of Europe's most authentic medieval reinactment groups ... and he is making sure that the weapons and equipment have a very realistic quality, whilst still looking original in terms of design.

We have had various workshops with sword masters, both European and oriental. We have also had workshops with one of the only guys in NZ skilled at firing an authentic English longbow. We are working hard at establishing unique fighting styles for the different races of Middle-earth.

"also how much stuntwork is required for the major characters"

PJ: A difficult question to answer now. Obviously the stuntwork will be dictated by the final scripts and fight choreography.

"and how do you intend to handle the Race of the three Hunters?”

PJ: I assume you're referring to the sequence where Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli pursue Merry and Pippin? It pretty much follows the book.

And then Joe Piela of Lonely Mountain Forge asks this:

“How is the Weta Workshop handling the enormous job of producing huge amounts of chainmail, other armor, and weapons to equip the thousands of extras appearing in the movies?”

PJ: The armor making is well underway. "Hero" suits are being made in steel, with background suits in fibreglass. They is no better way to make steel armour and weapons than the way it was done 600 years ago ... we have a foundry set up at Weta. Steel is heated red-hot and beaten on anvils! It looks very authentic!

Our hero chainmail is being manufactured in India of all places. There is a company there that can make square-section mail very quickly and cheaply (Amnesty International have assured us they are not using child labour).

For the background suits of mail we are using the old knitted string technique. A wonderful Wellington Knitting Club is producing about one suit per person per day (all these ladies are over 70 years old!)

Background and fighting weapons are being cast in a strong, rigid rubber material, that will not wobble (did anyone see the wobbling axe in the last shot of Braveheart?)

6. Heh heh heh.... The geeks are doing pretty good thus far, so let us continue. The almighty Andy came in with this question about Sam and Frodo’s journey....

“How do you intend to show Frodo and Sams journey from the Breaking of the fellowship right through to the ascent to the pass of Cirith Ungol. In the Novel this particular part of the journey was given quite alot of time to develop indeed it was given a complete book in the Two Towers. The reason I ask this is because this entire section is a slow build up of tension were Tolkien tried to slowly increase the horrors and power of Mordor which is fine in the context of a novel but quite simply there is not enough action or excitement for a film.it would be a shame to see the first part of frodo and sams journey brushed over to make way for the more epic events that happen to their fellow friends in the Two towers".

PJ: This is the stuff we are currently writing , so we are aware of the problems that you point out. There is much more action with the events in Rohan, so in a way that becomes the "A Story" or driving narrative of the 2nd movie.

We are developing the Frodo and Sam story in two ways: We are putting a lot of emphasis on the Gollum/Smeagol schizoid personality split and how that impacts on Frodo and Sam, and also making their capture by the Faramir's troops as tense as possible. It's interesting that in the Two Towers, the greatest threat to the Ring comes not from the Orcs but from Man ... and we want to really strengthen that drama.

Our experience here is a good example of what we are discovering during this writing process. Everything is in the books to one extent or another ... we have little need to make things up, but we do need to be selective in what we emphasis. In some areas we are taking things that Tolkien brushed over and developing them more, because it supports the narrative drive of the film ... and deleting some things entirely because they don't support what we're doing with the film at that point.

"Also will you show the 3 assault's upon lorien and the siege of Dale and Erebor in the Return of the king or will you merely refer to them in passing conversation between characters?”

PJ: At this stage, they are neither shown or referred to in our old scripts, but as we have yet to write The Return of the King, anything could happen. Showing the assaults on Lorien could be great. We are definitely finding that as we now have more screen time with the trilogy, we are able to include much more of this type of detail. Keep your fingers crossed!

7. Here is a question from Doug about the whole “Children’s film” mark that he fears will be stamped on these films. So tell us Peter... How many Ewoks will you put in this movie and will you tear them up or let them kill the orcs?

“This question probably is asked a lot, but, What measure are taken to keep people from immediately thinking that this might be a children's film? Some people (and studio executives) might have some negative feelings, seeing the main characters being short people with curly hair and hairy feet. I had this fear after Entertainment Weekly said that it was a very shaky decision to give Peter Jackson 140 Million dollars to make a "Hobbit" trilogy.”

Your question really falls into the marketing domain. I know from experience that people who haven't read LotR think it is a children's book - getting mixed up with The Hobbit, no doubt. It is the job of the New Line marketing department to educate film goers as to exactly the type of movie they should expect. That is helped by having a great trailer and poster, of course.

The films we are making will be PG13. However, let me assure you that there is no pressure from New Line to gear them towards a children's audience. They are smart enough to know that The Lord of the Rings was huge in the sixties, and most of those readers are now 50 years old. The intention is to make it neither childish, nor overly dark ... a good solid action adventure with intelligence and depth.

I was talking with a New Line executive the other day, and we were saying that the battle scenes should push the PG13 envelope, not in terms of violence, but shear intensity. I also wouldn't rule out the possibility of "extra battle footage", unsuitable for a PG13, for future video releases either.

“One last thing, I would like to thank both Harry and Peter Jackson, If I did not read what people felt about the books, I would never have picked them up, and I would have never realized Tolkien's great work.”

8. I’ve been inundated with query after query about Gollum. Will he be a fishy, froggy thing. How will evil twist and turn a Hobbit into a Gollum? Will he be an actor in a costume, a puppet, a cgi thing? However the best person to ask all of this stuff was our dear man Cliff, and here’s what he had to say...

“I submit the $0.64 question: Rumor has it that all main characters will be live actors except one: which will be a completely CGI creature. This must be Gollum, then? One would assume you would not create a "Yoda"-type Gollum that was a fancy electronic hand-puppet".

PJ: Gollum will be completely CGI. His performance has to be spectacular - way beyond anything we have yet seen in CGI land. WETA are developing vast amounts of new code to deal with this. New modelling codes, new skinning code, new bone and muscle code - muscle that actually acts the same as the real organic tissue. His performance will be based largely on motion capture - an under used, under rated technique that if done badly can be terrible, but if used well is amazingly life-like.

The Gollum design is finished and approved. How do I describe him? Not too fishy or froggy - a little I guess, but we took a great deal of care to make him believable. You have to accept that he was once like Frodo, but that the power of the Ring has kept him alive way beyond his years. We were very careful to give him a range of expressions from the evil of Gollum to the sympathy of Smeagol. His design is based on a sculpture created by the WETA workshop guys. This has been scanned into the computer used a NZ invented scanner that reproduces all the detail of the original sculpture - he doesn't look in the slightest like a CG model.

Throw out any thoughts or concerns you have about CG creatures you've seen .. this is gonna be different. Gollum's going to be cool!

"And if you do make Gollum as completely CGI, the biggest question is what will you look for in his Voice? Clearly the voice-actor must make Gollum suitably wretched and vile, but at the same time pitiful, as his relationship with the Hobbits in the latter part of the story is so important. A whole generation of Tolkien fans have a strong impression of the Gollum that Brother Theodore voiced for the Rankin/Bass television movies. Will your Gollum have this guttural, twisted monster voice or will he sound like a Hobbit (which he is, ostensibly)?”

PJ: We have yet to cast Gollum's voice, but I would imagine it should reflect the same twisted deterioration that has happened to his body.

9. Alot of people are curious about your research for writing with Fran Walsh the 3 scripts for the films. Did you consult the Professors various notes, The Silmarillion, or Tolkien scholars works? Here’s what Josh was curious about...

“Are there any (at least possibly tentative) plans to feature references to Tolkien's *other* masterwork, "The Silmarillion", in dialogue, or perhaps, in flashback (such as Aragorn's recounting of the Beren and Luthien tale in "Fellowship"?

PJ: We have a vast library of every book we can find that has been written by and about Tolkien and Middle-earth. I can't claim to have read them all cover-to-cover, but we consult them when nessacary.

The Silmarillion is obviously very useful, but it does not feature in our trilogy. There is cross-over material that appears in both, like the history of the Rings and Sauron, and the Last Alliance, Elendil and Isildur. Like I said earlier, material that does not have direct bearing on our story is difficult to fit in. However, there are many references to the early Ages in our dialogue.

10. I know you have been seen buying butt-loads of model kits at modeling shows and shops. Undoubtedly this comes from being a geek. Give us your impressions, as a geek, of the modeling work that is being done on the film. Which ‘kit’ is going to be the one we’ll all die for?

PJ: The model kit analogy is very apt, since all of our creature and armour designing is based on resin or garage kit techniques. After doing a series of drawings, we start marquetting the designs as small (12") sculptures, using Super-sculpty and casting in resin. Richard Taylor's team must have produced nearly 300 such sculptures already, with many more to go. There are about 50 Uruk-Hai marquettes, dozens of Orcs and Gollums, Rohan and Gondorian soldiers. Just before Christmas they finished a series of design marquettes of Dwarves in full battle armour. They looked great! Any one would make a great kit.

WETA has a team of about 6 main sculptors who do beautiful work. This stuff is great, just as I thought their Kong dinosaurs where the best I'd ever seen.

Don't worry ... we're shooting miles of video footage of all this stuff for the "Special Edition" laser and DVD supplements!

"Will you beat NEW LINE into setting up the toy license with McFarlane toys? Ok ok ok, yeah I know... this is all stuff that is so far away you don’t want to even think about it, but when you walk into the Weta studios and you see the work that’s being done.... describe how it makes you feel as a lifelong geek..."

PJ: It feels amazing ... it's an honour and privilege to be working on a project like this. It transcends film making and becomes something you love doing every second of the day. It is a once-in-a-lifetime experience.

11. Once again I’m being deluged with questions about scoring, but I don’t want to waste a question with it, because that’s a decision you’ll probably make in a couple of years, but if you have any thoughts comment on em, otherwise get on to question eleven which is really from Underdog:

“Peter, first I want to thank you for being human enough to get down in the mud and play with us. I’m curious. From what I have read, you started off 4 months ago with two scripts based on a 3 book series. You said that they were titled “The Fellowship of the Ring” and “The War of the Ring”. You also said that you were going to basically add 30 pages to the total page length of the scripts when converting from 2 to 3 scripts. What I’m curious about is the breaks. Obviously when you had it structured as a 2 film story, you felt like you had a great breaking point. How was it originally going to be broken down, and how has that changed?"

PJ: The first film in the 2 film version climaxed with the battle of Helm's Deep.

"Is it now going to be broken up as they were in the books? What was the most daunting task in turning the 2 scripts into 3?”

PJ: Yes. it's pretty much following the books now, which is actually a good thing. Ever since we starting working on the trilogy, it has felt like a much more natural way to tell the story. We also can include most of the key characters and events in a way that just wasn't possible with the two films.

The most daunting thing is to shape an ending for "The Fellowship of the Ring". Our original Part One had the advantage of a victorious battle to end with, but The Fellowship obviously ends in a very "up in the air" kinda way. We are not changing anything in the book, but we are trying to pitch it in a positive way, so it doesn't feel like too much of a bummer. A lot of this has to do with Frodo's character, and the way we are developing him.

Apart from that, nothing else is daunting about going from 2 films to 3 - it's a wonderful thing!

12. Ok, here we have a fella that’s willing to let you not show EVERY character mentioned in the three books, but.... Well Greg, wants to know...

“You've hinted that the first film may move quickly to the Council of Elrond, showing very little of the hobbit adventures in reaching Rivendell..which would be fine with me.”

PJ: There's more than you think. The actual council doesn't start until page 72.

“as a fan of the books, I think I’d prefer the approach, where possible, of moving a favorite character or scene or relationship "off screen" rather than watering it down or creating composite characters. In other words, maybe your film doesn't show me Prince Imrahil...but don't tell me there IS NO Prince Imrahil.”

PJ: I agree with that. The same goes for Bombadil ... when the hobbits arrive at Bree without us seeing the Bombadil episode, it doesn't mean it didn't happen ... it just wasn't shown in the film. You are certainly welcome to imagine that they have had that experience, and we do nothing to prevent that.

“As you've whittled away at the characters and storylines to complete your script, were there any characters or storylines set aside whole, to an extent that they might themselves serve as a framework for sequel/prequel/parralelquels for yourself or another film maker if these 3 films prove to be a wild success.”

PJ: Not really. The key events and characters are all there - at least in my mind. Of course the depth of Middle-earth is so great that there are many imaginative ways to create sequels (beyond the obvious Hobbit prequel).

One idea I've got (if the trilogy is successful) would be to gather the cast together again and shoot another couple of hours worth of scenes to flesh out The Lord of the Rings as a more complete "Special Edition". In other words, we would write and shoot the Tom Bombadil stuff, or scenes involving Gandalf and Aragorn hunting Gollum, and his capture by Orcs ... and any number of other bits of business that we can't fit into the 6 hour version. That would be a really cool way of creating a "sequel" - expanding the existing The Lord of the Rings from 6 to 8 or 9 hours! It would be the first time that has ever been done (except for CE3K perhaps).

Anyway - one step at a time!

“for an example..Frodo's adventure reaching Rivendell, Bilbo's HOBBIT story of course, and Aragorn's adventures in his youth.”

PJ: New Line will definitely make The Hobbit if LotR is a success.

13. Amongst all the cries and whimpers and screams about Lord of the Rings, there was a single brave soul that was curious about... Another film.

WHAT? HOW DARE HE!!!

Well, shucks, just to show the voice and question of a single type matters... well, here ya go Yakkel:

“What's happening with King Kong?”

PJ: Universal sees KING KONG as a valuable future franchise to feed into their theme parks, etc, so I'm sure at some point they will remake King Kong.

My involvement? That's entirely up to Universal. If they asked me to jump back onto Kong after The Lord of the Rings, I would say "yes!" in a nanosecond. It's my favourite movie, and I liked the direction we were taking our script. WETA have great designs and CG tests that Universal have never even seen. Whether Universal will ask is the big unknown. Did Godzilla or Mighty Joe Young do the type of business to inspire a Kong remake? Maybe ... just. I think it's a safe bet that they will wait and see how The Lord of the Rings turns out before talking to me about Kong. That's the way the system works.

I'd love to do it ... let's wait and see.

14. Ahhhhh, the sweet locations of New Zealand. So Peter, where on those beautiful isles of yours will you be shooting? And if someone were to fly down there... how different will the locations be that their eyes would see in reality from the filmed versions? Will you use exclusively digital matte paintings, or will there be any... real Albert Whitlock style matte paintings?

PJ: We are slowly nailing down our locations ... a process that will stretch on for a few more months. We will have some matte paintings, but they will be used for subtle enhancements, rather than creating an entire landscape. We have such great real locations, we don't need to struggle too much to create Middle-earth.

One interesting approach we are exploring is to digitise the ENTIRE movie into the computer - every frame - which would allow us to "fiddle" with all of our shots in some way or another. This would have great impact on the landscapes, since we could change cloud formations, add sunsets, or forests, or waterfalls wherever we wanted. It would help enormously to make all those exterior scenes a little more magical. It has never been done before on the live action film, and would require a huge data storage system. We are currently exploring the options.

“Have you settled on sites for principal photography yet? If so, can you reveal what they might be? This may be of interest mostly to Kiwis or (like me) those who have visited or lived in Godzone, but it might also give us an idea of the kind of scenery and look to expect from LOTR. “

PJ: We have a few key locations nailed down. I'm not going to be specific because I don't want to see photographs appearing on the net! It's no secret that we will be using elements of the region known as the "Volcanic Plateau" for Mordor. We have found a great Hobbiton location ... somewhere in the North Island. We've got a great Weathertop in the Waikato ... a gorgeous Edoras location in Canterbury. It's looking good ... no cause for panic!

15. Here is an essay question about loyal book readers, vs the heathens that have never read the books, this one from Steve in Pheonix, Arizona....

“Question for Peter Jackson: Is this movie going to be good? No just kidding, I have an actual question, but it comes with a bit of background, so here goes... I was first introduced to these wonderful books when I was in 4th grade. (I am 28 now) I loved being able to envision all of the awesome places and people that this story creates. When I first heard about these movies being made, I was both ecstatic, and worried, as I would assume are many fans of TLOTR. Do you think that these movies will be able to pull in non fans of the written word? I mean these are great books, but I am unsure of their potential for the big screen. There are times (blasphemy I know) when the books tend to drag somewhat. Are you afraid of alienating hard-core fans at the expense of trying to make these films more accessible to the non-literary fans? I realize that this is probably the "real trick" in making these movies, but I am curious as to how you are planning on pulling it off. I know the logical answer is "Wait and see," but I figured if we had this opportunity for questions, I may as well ask the one that seems most pertinent. Sorry for the essay. I can get a bit wordy at times.... Thank you and good luck. Here is at least 2 tickets you can count as being sold. ( I will be taking my young son, who I hope to introduce to the wonderful world of Middle Earth)”

PJ: It's a good question and the answer really boils down to the tricky tightrope I have to walk. I need to balance the expectations of the book's fans with making a movie for people that have never read the book. I have responsibility to both and I don't think it's quite as hard as you might imagine. We simply don't have time to include everything ... which helps with your pace concerns. The bottom line is that the characters and storylines are so wonderful that it should amaze, surprise and delight people that have never read the books.

Harper Collins told me that they usually sell about 100 copies of The Lord of the Rings in New Zealand per month ... since the trilogy was announced, sales have risen to 1000 copies per month! At the end of the day, a half-decent movie has got to inspire many new readers. It can't do anything else.

16. I really like this question from Brooke, so here ya go PJ:

“Lord of the Rings is a hugely complicated, sophisticated story. Even in three parts, there's no way that every detail could appear. I imagine that Jackson will follow some of the themes of the trilogy more strongly than others. Well, what are the most important themes to him? When all is said and done, and we can finally see all three films back-to-back (assuming we're all still *alive* then), what does he want us to come away with (other than awe at the effects and such, which is inevitable)? What *meaning* will he give the films, and what themes will he emphasize to do so?”

PJ: Getting to the end of this alive is something that concerns me too!

I'm interested in themes about friendship and self-sacrifice. That Hobbits would go into hell with little chance of survival is touching, especially since their sacrifice actually paves the way for the ascent of Mankind. The fact that The Lord of the Rings actually tells the story of how Humans became the dominant species on Earth (over Hobbits, Dwarves, Orcs, etc) is an interesting angle that is easily overlooked.

Questions about Mortality vs Immortality, seen through Aragorn and Arwen's eyes is intriguing. We are also making use of Tolkien's favourite Nature vs Machine themes.

“PS -- one quick question, not worth wasting one of your real ones on: Do people call him "PJ"? Somehow, it's hard to imagine.”

PJ: I don't get called PJ in conversation very often, but it is always used for written shorthand ... "PJ to attend design meeting at 3pm".

17. I’m pretty sure I know the answer to this question, but I know a lot of people that are voicing it. It’s a genuine fear that many readers of this site have given the onslaught of stupidity by Warner Brothers execs and Universal’s marketing department and... well you all know the guilty.

PJ: The guilty at Universal no longer work there!

Here’s the fear as voiced by Trevor...

“PJ, are you absolutely certain that New Line is going to back your vision all the way to the end?"

PJ: No ... I'm sure there will be disagreements. There always is.

"Do you have it in black and white on a contract that the editors aren't going to have a heyday with your film and make some butchered Bakshi-like piece of shit that has a total running time of a little under 3 hours?"

PJ: No, I don't have that in my contract, but ultimately contracts are worthless. New Line is spending so much money that it will do what it feels it needs to do to protect it's investment ... contract or no contract.

I have a feeling New Line would be making a big mistake by doing that, but never underestimate the stupidity of the head up the ass execs that exist in the entertainment industry. Just remember to stand firm on what you know will be good and tell the naysayers to go to hell.”

PJ: So much of this business is about trust. New Line are trusting us to make this book into an expensive trilogy of films ... and we are trusting New Line not to deluge us with bad ideas. The trust factor in this relationship feels pretty good. Remember that it was Bob Shaye's idea to make a trilogy - we didn't promote that. The two New Line guys working closely with us are Mike De Luca and Mark Ordesky - both are huge fans of the book. We were at a story meeting when Mark starting quoting passages from the book verbatim. Fran's jaw dropped open in amazement! And I was at a party when Mark's mother told me how he used to draw Middle-earth maps and make models when he was a kid. De Luca and Ordesky are the closest thing you get to genuine geeks in the studio system ... they simply want what all of us do - to see a great Lord of the Rings trilogy made. There is no other agenda.

Sure, they'll be disagreements ... we will probably yell at each other before this is over, because there's a lot at stake ... but I truly believe that New Line has it's heart in the right place.

18. Alright, Peter has already stated that Sam and Frodo will not be gay lovers, and Sam won’t be a woman, but some people still fear the ever-present platonic love these characters shared as best of friends. Here’s the question from John...

“How do you plan to handle the relationship between Frodo and Samwise? It seems to me that filming Sam's attitude toward Frodo exactly as in the books would be fairly risky, at least for the U.S. audience. For example, times that Sam holds a weakened Frodo in his arms, stroking his hand and saying how he loves him, is likely to get more public exposure from intolerant folks than you really want.”

PJ: We don't have the hand-stroking stuff, but the relationship is very close to how it is in the book. It's a story of great friendship ... nothing to be embarrassed about.

19. I’ve had tons of people ask about the look of the films, the cinematographer, the style, the feel, etc. But what concerns me is this. You say there will be 5 separate units filming all at the same time for months on end in and around New Zealand. Have you chosen a DP (director of photography) and how would he and you really over see all of that filming?

PJ: We haven't chosen a DP yet, but we are looking at very high tech telecommunication systems. The different units will have direct access to me via high definition live satellite feeds. I can talk to crew ... direct actors ... look at camera angles and check takes as if I was actually physically there. It shouldn't be a problem.

"How do you keep this from looking TV mini-series-ish? If you haven’t chosen a DP, who are you looking at? I presume every frame is being planned before you ever set out with your 50 Panavision cameras."

PJ: If we digitise the entire film as I mentioned earlier, then a lot of the "look" of the movies can be created in post-production, with lighting and mood adjustments being made on an Inferno suite. It doesn't minimise the work of a DP, but provides an extra tool to give the films a very special look. I'm talking subtle here ... nothing that detracts from the reality feel that I want to create.

20. Alright, here we are at the last question. This will be an easy one Peter. It’s been 4 months since our last chat. What has happened in regards to THE LORD OF THE RINGS in the last 4 months? Still on schedule, what is that schedule?

PJ: Things have progressed very smoothly ... the calmest, most controlled period in the 22 months that I have been working on the project. New Line have been very supportive and receptive to our ideas. They love our designs and were pleased with the first draft of The Fellowship that we delivered.

WETA Workshop are continuing to pump out great designs and huge piles of weapons and armour. WETA Digital are producing tests that are very exciting. We saw some stuff just before Christmas that got everybody worked up!

Alan Lee and John Howe are continuing to produce what I think is their most inspired work. They have now been on the project for a full year and return in a couple of weeks.

We are talking with New Line about extending our prep and design phase to enable us to fully work up the scripts, designs and storyboards. We did talk about shooting in May, but I feel that we would not be fully prepared. I am determined to keep this project under control in a way that rarely happens with big budget FX films. It is all about being prepared, and once we start rolling we are making 3 huge movies in a row. We have to be SO prepared! I would like to have until August or September to fully finish my storyboards and animatics. New Line are thinking about that. Contractually, we have to be filming by October, so don't worry - by this time next year The Fellowship of the Ring at least will be in the can!

I'm off to get some sleep ... I've enjoyed these questions and I hope my answers have been useful. If there's anything you want to tell me, fire away - I will read all of the comments following this.

Let's do it again!

Cheers,

Peter J

As Origens do Neo-Druidismo: Entre Tradição Céltica e Pós-Modernidade texto de Ana Donnard

2010-05-16T00:05:00.000-07:00

Salvo do cache do Google

Revista de Estudos da Religião - REVER
ISSN 1677-1222

Pós-Graduação em Ciências da Religião - PUC-São Paulo

Ana Donnard[*]
Resumo

O fenômeno das seitas e pseudo-religiões não é novo. A pós-modernidade apresenta, no entanto, uma nova e ampla diversificação de formas e conteúdos, emergentes de uma re-configuração de fundo antigo através de heranças medievais. O neo-druidismo se insere nos fenômenos sociais pós-modernos, mas é também parte importante do Celtismo que ambientou a historiografia e a literatura no final do séc. XVIII dezoito até o final do séc. XIX. Neste artigo apresentamos brevemente o neo-druidismo britônico e sua marca distintiva em relação a outras vertentes modernas e pós-modernas. Para tanto, discutimos: 1) Os druidas na Antigüidade e os druidas na modernidade 2) Como reconstruir um Druidismo extinto com a cristianização 3) Como legitimar uma herança druídica para as culturas célticas através de uma tradição bárdica. 4) o Druidismo na Bretanha armoricana e no País de Gales.

The Origins of Neo-druidism: between Celtic Tradition and Post-modernity

Abstract

The appearance of sects and pseudo-religions is not an entirely new phenomenon. However, post-modernity presents new and widely diversified forms and contents, which emerge from a re-configuration of the ancient basis through medieval legacies. Not only is neo-druidism included in post-modern social phenomena, but it is also an important part of the Celticism, that oriented historiography and literature from the late eighteenth to the end of the nineteenth centuries. In this paper, I offer a summary of Brythonic neo-druidism and its distinctive character in relation to other modern and post-modern neo-paganisms. Therefore, I discuss: 1) The druids in antiquity and modernity 2) The reconstruction of some druidic practices and beliefs that were extinguished by Christianity 3) The use of the Bardic tradition to legitimise the druidic heritage in Celtic cultures 4) Neo-druidism in Brittany and Wales.

Introdução

A diversidade de fenômenos religiosos, ou pseudo-religiosos, com a qual nos deparamos hoje na atual pós-modernidade, não só nos coloca diante de várias dificuldades de orientação metodológica para a análise destes fenômenos, como nos exige uma cuidadosa elaboração de argumentos, pois o terreno é extremamente fértil para as mais engenhosas imaginações como é também freqüentemente povoado de ideologias que estão longe de promover uma serena análise histórica, sociológica e concreta dos fatos. E ainda, como se não bastasse a dificuldade da tarefa, não raro uma critica ou estudo de caso é objeto de aguerridas reações daqueles que se vêem tocados na sua mais alta e magnânima credulidade, agredidos que se sentem pelas vias do racionalismo 'impuro' que os condena à simples condição de falsários ou neuróticos candidatos da mais alta psicopatia.[1]

A condenação de seitas tem se feito organicamente hoje em alguns países europeus que se viram, diante da proliferação de grupos das mais variadas orientações, obrigados a criar mecanismos legais que pudessem legitimar ações jurídicas contra grupos sectários, possibilitando assim um controle maior do Estado em relação a estes grupos que são dificilmente classificáveis, tamanha a variação e os constantes desdobramentos em que se inserem. Esses grupos oriundos de sociedades secretas ou sectárias ou ainda de associações mais ou menos visíveis na sociedade sofrem dissidências sistemáticas, desdobrando-se em várias outras ramificações, fruto mesmo de suas características intrínsecas de afiliação e alianças decorrentes de estruturas muito pouco sólidas e de tradições inventadas ao sabor das necessidades mais imediatas.

A lei da liberdade de culto oferece livre constituição de grupos que se coordenam em diferentes territórios. A proliferação é de tamanha ordem que se lançou na França a lei de proteção contra o sectarismo, e diversas organizações não-governamentais se encarregam de oferecer suporte psicológico e jurídico a pessoas que se encontram em situação de risco - psíquico ou físico - decorrentes de experiências no seio desses grupos ou seitas.[2] Sem dizer que uma das maiores preocupações do governo francês se refere à camada jovem da sociedade que é facilmente assimilada por estes discursos que descrevem um mundo fantástico e surpreendente, oriundos, em sua maioria, do americanismo que impregnou toda uma geração desde os anos oitenta e que segue até hoje de forma universal.[3]

Esses fenômenos sectários, não sendo uma exclusividade da pós-modernidade, já foram objeto de inúmeros trabalhos de historiadores e antropólogos no sentido de identificar a influência das sociedades secretas ou seitas que se constituíram desde a Idade Média até os dias de hoje como elemento orgânico de nossas sociedades, estejam elas mais ou menos ocultas diante de nossos olhos. A proliferação de seitas e pseudo-religiões de toda espécie não é simplesmente uma continuação de uma herança antiga e medieval, mas inscreve-se em uma nova fenomenologia, ainda que estas novas vestimentas se constituam com o mesmo tecido de conjecturas e propostas para seus membros potenciais: aquisição da felicidade terrena por novas vias da revelação através de tradições que só podem ser conhecidas por pessoas com características especiais e singulares. Mas a gama de critérios é tão assustadoramente variada que nos impedem qualquer síntese. Uma breve visita à Internet poderá dar uma idéia a qualquer neófito no assunto sobre a complexidade de fenômenos a serem analisados. No Brasil, a própria Igreja Católica se vê diante de novas formas de cultos, particularmente nas emotivas missas dos carismáticos ou dos novos sacerdotes brasileiros como Padre Marcelo e outros. Neste sentido, podemos avaliar o impacto da modernidade e suas conseqüências até mesmo em tradições e religiões milenares. O fenômeno das seitas e pseudo-religiões não é novo, o que é novo é a sua amplitude e a diversificação de suas formas e apresentações.

Por todos os países se espalham diferentes vias de auto-conhecimento, curas alternativas, contatos extraterrestres, cultos xamânicos, enfim, seria inoportuno aqui enumerarmos todas as vertentes que se espalham hoje no mundo, seja através do neo-paganismo, seja através de esoterismos cabalísticos ou influências orientais diversificadas, recuperação de forças telúricas da natureza, incluindo movimentos de defesa da natureza ligada a partidos políticos de orientação ecológica.[4] Nosso interesse será o neo-druidismo que se insere nestes fenômenos sociais modernos e que detém uma configuração específica porque é parte do Celtismo: gênero de discurso identitário e nacionalista que ambientou a historiografia e a literatura durante o final do séc. XVIII, se consolidou no séc. XIX e se estende até os dias de hoje, sobretudo nos discursos dos neo-druidas bretões, que são o objeto de nosso interesse.

Druidas na antiguidade, Druidas românticos e Druidas na pós-modernidade

Druidas e druidismo - o segundo termo é um neologismo e implica uma relação temporal e causal. Estamos muito longe dos druidas antigos, embora o “druidismo” seja a evocação de uma filiação antiga.[5] O termo druida é de etimologia celta, não tendo nenhum correlato em língua grega senão o termo com o qual os antigos os identificaram em primeira instância - filósofos - pelo qual podemos avaliar a importância desta classe na antiguidade.[6] O termo grego δρνιδης é um empréstimo ao celta, empregado por Aristóteles. Os gregos, na tentativa de explicar o nome indígena do sacerdote-druida celta, relacionaram o nome com o culto ao carvalho, mas, etimologicamente, druida quer dizer aquele que tem o conhecimento. César, que testemunhou o emprego do nome na Gália, usa o etnômio Celta, Celtae (em sua língua nacional eles se chamam Celtas) e faz menção aos druidas (De Bello Gallico VI, 14, 21), sendo a forma por ele atestada correspondente às formas irlandesas do antigo irlandês druí/druíd.[7] As fontes clássicas são lacunares e muito pouco se sabe dos druidas através delas. Temos conhecimento apenas de um druida histórico: Diviciacus - o Eduano, personagem bem conhecido por meio de César. Todos os outros citados ficaram anônimos.[8] Uma outra referência aparecerá em Ausonio, poeta latino: Phoebicius, guardião do templo de Belenus, um homem da raça dos druidas da Armórica.[9]

A menção da Armórica como origem deste personagem citado por Ausonio merece atenção. Os romanos fizeram várias referencias à Insula Sena e Pomponius Mela faz a descrição da famosa ilha de Sena, diante do território dos Osímios, na Armórica. Nela, virgens chamadas de Gallizenae, se dedicavam a um oráculo de uma divindade gaulesa. Os Osímios fazem parte dos quatro povos celtas que habitaram o território que é hoje a Bretanha francesa, na península armoricana, nome de origem antiga que significa país do mar - Armor. Ainda hoje a denominação é usada para diferenciá-la da antiga Bretanha insular, atual Inglaterra, que para os gregos e romanos se chamava Britania. César assinalava o fato de que os druidas mantinham um centro de educação na Bretanha insular, para onde todos os postulantes eram conduzidos a fim de se instruírem na ciência druídica. Não se pode negar as evidências de que, juntamente com a Gália continental, a Bretanha peninsular armoricana e a Bretanha insular foram, durante a antiguidade, território de druidas. Mas as evidências são muito mais literárias do que arqueológicas. E, mesmo na Irlanda, de onde nos chegaram relatos de druidas legendários, nada pode se saber de concreto a seu respeito no campo da arqueologia.[10] No continente, na península armoricana, como na ilha britânica e na Irlanda, todos os dados são interpretativos: nenhuma inscrição, nenhuma materialidade pode ser diretamente e concretamente identificada com o sacerdócio do druida sem que se construa várias conjecturas. Os sítios arqueológicos dos santuários célticos apresentam obviamente vestígios de rituais, mas a cosmogonia ou o universo mitológico ao qual se dirigiam estes rituais não pode ser verificado, a não ser de forma fragmentária, e a figura do druida não aparece.[11]

Não se poderia imaginar um sacerdócio de tão grande importância sem um panteão mitológico capaz de legitimar as relações divinas dos druidas com o mundo dos homens. A arqueologia Hallstatiana revela vestígios de uma mitologia anônima, deuses locais eleitos por tribos de acordo com as situações vividas pelos grupos sociais que os elegem. Após o período Hallstatiano verifica-se uma grande evolução artística e, através da iconografia céltica, poder-se-ia então reconstituir um sistema de fundo mitológico comum e, no caso que nos interessa, reconhecer e identificar o sacerdote ou o druida. No entanto, a ausência de registros escritos reduz toda essa gama de representações da Arte Lateniana ao mecanismo de interpretações hipotéticas.

Os celtas não identificaram suas divindades através da escritura, como fizeram os gregos e os romanos. Algumas raras inscrições do período pré-romano são provenientes do contato com o Mediterrâneo e todas a figurações acompanhadas de inscrições são do período romano. Os registros escritos de ordem mágico-religiosa atestam práticas marginais, não revelando nada ou quase nada das divindades celtas.[12]

Esta é a razão de sermos tão devedores de César para a identificação, ainda que parcial, de uma teogonia celta. Ao descrever os atributos dos deuses dos gauleses - que não são mencionados em seu nome indígena, mas identificados com a denominação romana - César nos fornece o mais precioso: a descrição dos atributos relacionados a esses deuses. As questões de ordem sócio-política, relativas a uma situação de dominação e submissão, estariam mais próximas de uma negociação de poderes e deveres do que propriamente de um sincretismo religioso capaz de identificar par a par os deuses de um e outro panteão - além de estarmos, nesse âmbito, sujeitos a interpretatio romana.[13] Mesmo que o paralelismo com o panteão greco-romano seja capaz de identificar uma mitologia celta, muito ainda não sabemos sobre a sua cosmogonia e os aspectos religiosos que envolviam o culto a aos deuses.

Devemos, além disso, levar em consideração o fato de que os sistemas religiosos em contraposição - greco-romano e celta - são divergentes, fazem parte de um outro sistema de pensamento e de representação e, ainda, de uma outra esfera de civilização que nem sempre possibilita a superposição para estudos comparativos, ainda que alguns elementos sejam de ordem similar.[14]

Entretanto, as fontes documentais da literatura antiga não deixam duvidas quanto à existência desta classe sacerdotal e sabe-se que foram até mesmo uma ameaça ao poder de Roma, que trata de proibir o druidismo (Tibério e Cláudio) para salvaguardar sua autoridade. Verificando, portanto, as dificuldades da arqueologia diante das possibilidades de interpretação dos dados materiais religiosos celtas, pelas razões que assinalamos, poderíamos ser obrigados a relegar os druidas históricos a um silêncio ainda mais cruel do que aquele que lhes foi imposto por Roma, pois a figura do druida histórico, que poderia ser atestado pela arqueologia, resulta em mistério.

Em contrapartida, a literatura antiga não cessa de repertoriar comentários a um sistema religioso de alta complexidade, bem como a importância desta classe para a coesão de uma civilização que se estende, segundo as fontes greco-romanas, do centro do continente europeu até as ilhas do norte. Os druidas exerceram, segundo as fontes clássicas, o papel de detentores de um poder sacerdotal, aliando, através de um sistema religioso, as tribos do espaço céltico insular e continental que nunca formaram, no entanto, um Estado centralizado. O desaparecimento dos druidas entre o final da antiguidade e o inicio da antiguidade tardia repousa também em mistério. As fontes clássicas cessam de repertoriar comentários a respeito desses sacerdotes, antes freqüentemente referenciados, para silenciar totalmente. O silêncio druídico da antiguidade será desfeito séculos mais tarde, cerca de oitocentos anos depois, pela escrita dos filid irlandeses e pelos bardos bretões, que fornecerão aos arqueólogos e aos historiadores a possibilidade de interpretar os fragmentos materiais de uma religião celta. O silêncio dos druidas é quebrado na era medieval e ele ressurge como um fantasma nas brumas do espaço céltico atlântico, não sendo um retorno insípido, mas, infelizmente, para tantos românticos em busca do druida histórico, muito se deixou a desejar.

O druida ressurge no período medieval, porém dentro do contexto da transmissão de um fundo de natureza épica e mitológica. Os arcanos da religião não são revelados. O druidismo, como religião, não aparece. Não há uma doutrina, não há descrição sistemática dos ritos, não há textos sagrados. E a conclusão é a de que os druidas não teriam empregado a escritura para a transmissão de seus ensinamentos teológicos e metafísicos, sendo a oralidade o principal dogma desta religião céltica.[15]

Portanto, o que se sabe concretamente dos druidas e de seu mundo, fora das fontes greco-romanas, nos chega através dos textos vernaculares irlandeses e britônicos, mas nesse caso é preciso que se leve em consideração os séculos que separam os druidas da antiguidade dos monges irlandeses e bretões do século VI e o contexto cristão em que estas narrativas mitológicas de tradição oral foram transcritas.[16]

Christian Guyonvarc'h e Françoise Le Roux são os precursores de uma teoria interpretativa da religião druídica através dos textos mitológicos irlandeses, tendo como suporte a teoria dumeziliana, como não poderia deixar de ser para qualquer investigador da época entre as duas guerras.[17] Segundo estes autores, a tradição céltica foi oral enquanto sobreviveu. Após a cristianização, não há mais como se dar a sobrevivência dos ensinamentos druídicos. Estes apenas se revelam em formas escritas, através de uma oralidade funcional que nos chega incompleta, mas que não impediu a configuração, sobretudo a partir dos trabalhos do casal bretão, de uma religiosidade de alta estirpe, aproximativa dos gurus da Índia ou dos sufis do Islã. E chegam até mesmo a agradecer o fato de que e os druidas não tenham confiado à escritura o teor de suas doutrinas teológicas, visto a inépcia dos modernos em analisar os fatos mitológicos celtas. Com o tom extremamente crítico e autoritativo que lhes é peculiar, Guyonvarc´h e Le Roux fundamentam uma imagem nítida de religiosidade e, sobretudo, uma imagem bastante valorizada do druida celta:

Sinceramente nos sentimos penalizados (pelo fato de os Druidas não terem registrado seus ensinamentos por escrito), sobretudo pelo gaulês que jamais poderemos conhecer completamente. Mas a triste sorte reservada à mitologia céltica por tantos autores e publicações modernas modera o nosso pesar ao constatarmos sua ocultação na antiguidade. Além do mais, o método de ensino dos druidas devia ser bem mais próximo dos métodos dos Gurus da Índia ou dos Sufis do Islam do que dos métodos empregados nas nossas universidades européias atuais. Não é a ausência de escritura que exterminou um tal ensinamento (druídico), e sim o aparecimento no Ocidente de uma nova forma de Tradição, neste caso o Cristianismo, que fez do Livro a Revelação, a Vida e o Exemplo. Os Filid convertidos, sucessores de São Patrício, souberam tirar a conclusão necessária.[18]
Mas, como já mencionamos anteriormente, os dogmas, os rituais, os textos sagrados (que, se existiram, foram perdidos), em suma, a religião druídica propriamente dita, não nos chegou através dos textos vernaculares célticos. O que nos chega através da Irlanda e da Bretanha insular revela apenas a existência de uma classe sacerdotal que certamente existiu. O Glossário de Cormac, compilado por volta de 900, é, sem dúvida, uma fonte importante para a elucidação deste mundo de conhecimento e tradição oral da espiritualidade céltica, mas, como o nome indica, temos apenas fragmentos de fórmulas religiosas, sentenças concisas e preciosismos de uma língua erudita destinados à versificação dos poemas em homenagem aos reis e heróis.[19]

Encontramos alguns diálogos de sabedoria druídica intercalados com os textos mitológicos e as epopéias, mas estes também não revelam mais do que apenas fragmentos de uma tradição. O esoterismo desses diálogos confere uma grande riqueza de imagens, mas, como material fragmentário, não possibilita uma compreensão mais abrangente de uma mística ou de um ritual de iniciação. Neste sentido, nossas perguntas - para começarmos a analisar o fenômeno do neo-druidismo ou do “druida” na modernidade - se colocam:

1 - Como, através dos tempos, teria chegado até os druidas atuais uma cosmogonia e uma mística que desde os tempos mais remotos nunca foi transmitida textualmente, mas oralmente de mestre a discípulo, e que estaria dependente de uma filiação a uma classe sacerdotal tradicional que deixou de existir na antiguidade tardia?

2 - Como fabricar rituais sem os arcanos de uma religião, sem textos sagrados e sem iniciação pelos seus sacerdotes?

O início da reconstrução de um anonimato antigo

Antes de tentarmos responder com os argumentos próprios do neo-druidismo britônico a estas perguntas, cabe uma retrospectiva histórica deste fenômeno pseudo-religioso ou desta mística druídica reconfigurada na modernidade. Devemos notar de antemão que, para os neo-druidas britônicos, o druidismo, tal como praticado hoje, não é uma religião, mas a expressão de uma espiritualidade singular, ligada ao culto da natureza e à tradição oral bárdica. Retornaremos à questão mais adiante.

Outro problema que devemos confrontar e que também já salientamos na nossa introdução é o fato de que este tipo de fenômeno religioso, ou pseudo-religioso, ou místico, não é de fácil descrição, tendo em vista sua ampla disseminação em várias vertentes, cada qual com suas próprias formulações espirituais, esotéricas ou metafísicas, e traçar uma visão de conjunto é quase impossível.[20] Além do fato de que sociedades fechadas, que se baseiam em ritos iniciáticos ou de transmissão, não os revelam ao público geral - é preciso ser um iniciado para se conhecer a dinâmica dos dogmas. Devemos também ter em conta o fato de que os vários neo-druidismos variam de cultura para cultura - anglo-americana, anglo-saxônica, francesa, irlandesa e até mesmo japonesa! E ainda mais: devemos levar também em consideração o fato de que existe uma vertente que pertence, de uma forma direta ou indireta, às culturas célticas e outras que são fruto dos fenômenos próprios da pós-modernidade e sua internacionalização freqüente, repassando de continente a outro modismos, discursos esotéricos e associações de todos os mais variados estilos e concepções.

Mencionamos a ramificação anglo-americana e anglo-saxã pela parte que lhes cabe de parceiros históricos destas culturas: a americana pela imigração irlandesa e bretã e a inglesa pela própria história comum que une célticos e germanos num mesmo território. Mesmo havendo uma possibilidade de categorização e compartimentação dos grupos que se afiliam ao neo-druidismo, tais ramificações não são nada homogêneas em relação a uma concepção do que seria o druidismo e de como ele pode ser vivido na modernidade. Elementos comuns sempre existem, mas as incoerências são mais freqüentes do que os paralelismos.[21] E nem sequer abordamos ou nos interessamos em examinar os neo-druidismo no Brasil e na América Latina, por exemplo, ou na Alemanha ou em Portugal, porque simplesmente esta não seria uma abordagem apropriada para um pequeno artigo. Neste trabalho tentamos focalizar o neo-druidismo britônico.

Os primórdios de um fenômeno que chamamos hoje de neo-druidismo se deu no Castelo de Cardigan em 1176, quando se reuniram os bardos galeses para a primeira National Eisteddfod of Wales, sob os auspícios de Rhys ap Gruffydd, que havia recuperado o castelo das mãos dos Normandos. Esse encontro foi descrito no Brut y Tywysogion (Crônica dos Príncipes), uma das mais importantes fontes para a História do País de Gales. Nesta crônica pode-se ler:

No Natal daquele ano (1176) Lorde Rhys ap Gruffydd presidiu a corte em esplendor no castelo de Cardigan. Estipulou dois tipos de desafios naquele dia: um entre bardos e poetas, outro entre harpistas e gaiteiros e outros músicos. E então estabeleceu duas cátedras para os vencedores e os honrou com ricos prêmios.[22]
Esse é o evento considerado como inicial da tradição galesa de reunir bardos e poetas que seriam - tal como se deseja - os remanescentes de uma tradição druídica. Em primeiro lugar, é necessário que se compreenda que as funções do druida, descritas a partir dos textos vernaculares irlandeses e britônicos, possibilitam uma recuperação medieval. Uma das funções dos druidas era a preservação da literatura oral e das crônicas históricas e genealogias. Havia druidas de três classes: sacerdotes dos ofícios, legisladores e bardos. Esse último é o druida que teria chegado até nós, porque o sacerdote pleno de poderes ao lado do rei já havia caído em desgraça muito antes do surgimento dos textos vernaculares que descrevem seus poderes seculares e sacerdotais.

O que restou de um druidismo na Alta Idade Média cristianizada foram os bardos, considerados poetas da corte e detentores de uma memória arcaica. Em alguns casos também realizavam profecias políticas, que não deixam de nos fazer pensar numa herança druídica de vaticinação - não seria por menos a denominação de Vates em alguns textos latinos gregos e latinos com referencias aos druidas.[23] O exemplo mais típico deste druida remanescente de uma classe sacerdotal da antiguidade celta é Myrddim, o bardo-druida que cai em loucura após a batalha de Catraetth.[24]

Após o evento no castelo de Cardigan patrocinado por Lord Rhys ap Gruffydd, fez-se um longo silêncio até que John Toland, um irlandês visionário, viesse a lançar, em 22 de setembro de 1717, as bases de uma Ancient Druid Order, com o intuito de reunir todos os bardos clandestinos que erravam entre as ilhas e o continente. Seu nome de batismo é Seán Eoghain Ui Thuathalláin, e nasceu em Ardagh no Ulster, região de forte tradição gaélica. Toland não poupará críticas à Igreja Católica de sua Irlanda natal. Foi um anticlerical e “libre-penseur”. Sua obra é uma apologia do panteísmo naturalístico que concebe o universo e a natureza como a expressão viva de Deus em sua forma impessoal, através da qual a humanidade pode aceder à espiritualidade. O termo panteísmo é cunhado por ele e reflete a idéia da imanência de Deus em tudo e em todos. Sua obra é extensa e particularmente “History of the Celtic Religion and Learning Containing an Account of the Druids” (1726) tratará das questões específicas ligadas ao neo-druidismo que inicia, neste momento, sua jornada em direção a novos tempos e novas “ordens”.

Em 1792, um humilde galês, originário do Glamorgan, região também de forte tradição britônica, faz reviver a Eisteddefod - antiga tradição da qual falamos anteriormente, mas sob novas bases e com uma orientação que difere da concepção anticlerical e pagã de Toland. A principal atividade é o Concurso de Poemas e Canções, em que são premiadas as melhores performances, com improvisações orais que dão um caráter tradicionalmente bárdico ao evento. Não foi propriamente uma dissidência da Ancient Druid Order de Toland, que só veio a se desmembrar em 1964, dando origem à Druid Order e à Order of Bards, Ovates and Druids, esta última fundada por Ross Nichols, poeta, artista e historiador.[25] A Eisteddefod foi antes de tudo um movimento literário, uma retomada das antigas tradições britônicas que estavam relegadas a um lugar de cultura subalterna diante da dominação anglo-saxônica. Este movimento de reabilitação da velha tradição, liderado por Edward Williams - Iolo Morganawg no seu nome de bardo - será a pedra inaugural da Gorsedd, agremiação que reunirá importantes representantes das literaturas célticas, numa época conturbada de uma Europa plena de efervescências nacionalistas.

Em 1760 James MacPherson havia publicado sua famosa e controvertida obra Fragments of Ancient Poetry collected in the Highlands of Scotland, baseada em um personagem lendário da literatura gaélica chamado Ossian (Osín), guerreiro e poeta filho de Fion Mac Cumhail e que os irlandeses denominaram de Fenian Cycle. O autor clamava ter recolhido os poemas ossiânicos na cultura oral gaélica da Escócia e em manuscritos antigos. Essa publicação dá origem a uma das maiores querelas literárias da Europa romântica, não sem danos à sua imagem pessoal. A reputação de James MacPherson sofrerá as conseqüências da marginalização por toda uma sociedade letrada que o condena como impostor.[26]

Cem anos depois, em 1870, uma outra compilação de textos antigos entra em cena, mas desta vez em língua galesa - The Myvyriam Archaeology of Wales - Collected out of Ancient Manuscripts. Esta imensa obra de coleta de material folclórico e literatura oral, de genealogias e crônicas históricas, é organizada pelo mesmo Edward Williams (Iolo Morganwg) juntamente com Owen Jones (Myvyr) e William Owen Pughe (Idrison), que irão dar impulso à Ordem dos Bardos, a Gorsedd galesa, a mesma de que falamos anteriormente e que se originou nos encontros da Eisteddefod. A apresentação da obra alertava para sua importância diante do cenário literário internacional:

These books are venerable monuments of enlightened periods of literature amongst the Britons, while scenes of barbarity were acted over Europe, and darkened the light of our island: a literature whose origin was not borrowed, but matured at home, under that extraordinary system, the Bardic institution; concerning which, under the name of Druidism, much has been written, much misunderstood, and of which the world yet knows but very little.[27]
Entramos, então, em uma outra esfera de acontecimentos, em uma outra dimensão do neo-druidismo: um movimento literário que possibilitou a entrada em circulação de tradições orais britônicas e que teve como ponto de partida uma prática antiga que reunia os bardos-druidas em torno do rei e de suas assembléias, quando se dava, então, a recitação e a elaboração da memória literária. Mas, quando entramos no âmbito das histórias célticas e suas literaturas falando de dentro destes estudos para um público que é estrangeiro aos seus fenômenos internos, nunca estamos isentos de explicações preliminares que possam nos salvar de sermos taxados, quer de loucos românticos, quer de reacionários anacrônicos. É o caso do neo-druidismo e de suas intrincadas gêneses... O fato é que a Gorsedd, que foi fundada pelos galeses no final do período romântico, deu origem a um movimento literário importante, mas que só é estudado pelos célticos, sendo assimilado de maneira geral pelo público universitário como mais um delírio romântico à moda de MacPherson:

The extensive neo-druidic literature published by Welshmen in the romantic period in Welsh and English has never been properly studied, but has been dismissed with a patronizing smile in the way historians used to treat early modern beliefs in magic and witchcraft. [...] The revival of Druidism was a movement of considerable significance, all in all, because it involved myths which showed the cultural tradition of Wales to be older than other in western Europe, and it make the scholar or poet or teacher central to that culture. To some extent it restored the bard to his primary place in Welsh life.[28]
Este comentário pode nos fazer perceber o caráter periférico em que se encontravam e ainda hoje se encontram as literaturas célticas, que são estudadas apenas em seus filões nacionais, ficando à margem dos estudos literários pós-modernos ou pós-coloniais, que são, no entanto, tão atentos às literaturas de minorias. Assim, o desconhecimento em relação a essas culturas faz com que freqüentemente o druidismo seja assimilado muito mais no âmbito do celtismo do que de sua configuração histórica como herança legítima de uma literatura perdida pelos acidentes de percurso da história, mas que sobreviveu porque seu princípio, desde os primórdios, a preservou do esquecimento - a tradição oral e o culto à eloqüência.

Delírios existiram e seria ingênuo querer fazer aqui a defesa dos princípios literários do neo-druidismo, mas queremos apenas ressaltar a diferença que existiu - e que ainda existe - entre um neo-druidismo pseudo-religioso e um neo-druidismo literário. Um e outro nem sempre distanciados por linhas plenamente definidas no tempo e no espaço geográfico em que surgem, mas que possuem características que os diferenciam, seja nas origens, seja na forma que tomaram em sua evolução e permanência. Já ressaltamos neste trabalho a natureza fluída do que poderíamos identificar como neo-druidismo na pós-modernidade e suas diferentes formas e gêneses. Tomamos então como referência o neo-druidismo britônico, que nasce no País de Gales e na Bretanha armoricana e que representa uma tradição literária céltica em busca de suas representações modernas. O que existe atualmente deste filão romântico se estendendo, portanto, à nossa atual pós-modernidade, não é fruto direto dos fenômenos que inauguram nosso tempo, mas algo concebido numa outra esfera e, se estas associações tradicionais permanecem ativas até hoje, não devem ser confundidas com as associações e seitas do neo-druidismo pós-moderno que, no nosso entender, são fruto de uma outra dinâmica, de um outro momento e de uma outra dimensão.

Os druidas sempre existiram

Pode-se alinhar o druidismo céltico segundo três vertentes principais: a de John Toland (1717), fundador da Druid Order, de tendência paganisante e anticlerical, e a de Henry Hurle (1781), fundador da Ancient Orders of Druids. Esta “ordem” foi a que menos configurou uma filiação com as tradições orais célticas, sendo desde o início muito mais um grupo da franco-maçonaria inglesa do que propriamente um reflexo de um druidismo revolucionário, evoluindo no seu percurso final para uma associação financeira de ajuda mútua - uma espécie de consórcio previdenciário. A terceira vertente, fundada por Edward Williams (Iolo Morganwg - 1792), é a que se origina da tradição bárdica e a que revelou ser a mais fundamentada nos aspectos históricos do druidismo, tendo como ponto de partida a coleta das tradições folclóricas britônicas.

A Gorsedd galesa torna-se uma instituição de renome e, como não poderia deixar de ser, associa-se aos bretões do continente, pois suas tradições nada mais eram do que a mesma história compartilhada desde a antiguidade e, sobretudo, desde a Alta Idade Média, quando a migração de representantes do Cristianismo céltico insular instaura, na península, uma rede de dioceses com suas abadias e scriptoria. Essa migração preservou, dos dois lados do Canal da Mancha, a memória de uma história britônica. Entre 447 e 632 uma elite aristocrática britônica se instalou no continente em busca de novos domínios, deixando para trás os saxões pagãos.[29] A península armoricana ou a Armórica antiga se transforma então na Bretanha dos Sete Santos.[30] Exatamente nesse período dois personagens - Artur e Merlim - fizeram seus feitos lendários, o primeiro rei dos bretões, o outro, um bardo-druida. Eles representam dois símbolos imanentes à memória cultural dos bretões. O neo-druidismo britônico está ligado de forma consistente aos dois personagens, que fizeram sonhar não apenas os bretões místicos, mas toda uma Europa medieval, gerando o que mais tarde será a matéria do Graal, que se vê relançada na pós-modernidade com os fenômenos editoriais de exploração fácil do gosto mundano pelos mistérios de toda sorte, como o Código da Vinci.[31]

Em 1899 uma delegação bretã é convidada para participar de uma reunião da Gorsedd de Gales. O trabalho de coleta da tradição oral da Bretanha armoricana já havia se iniciado com Hersart de la Villemarqué, Anatole Le Braz e François-Marie Luzel. As relações entre o País de Gales e a Bretanha ficaram definitivamente consolidadas e a Gorsedd da Bretanha foi fundada a partir de então, tendo como primeiro druida Jean Le Fustec, em seguida Erwan Berthou, Taldir Jaffrenou, Pierre Loisel e, desde 1978, Gwenc'hlan Le Scouëzec, que segue até hoje os passos dos primeiros, trazendo para os tempos atuais uma grande riqueza de material folclórico e pesquisa histórica com suas obras, que não estão de forma alguma longe de serem consideradas obras-primas de um neo-druidismo de vertente autenticamente céltica.[32]

Os primórdios do neo-druidismo britônico podem ser definidos como um movimento literário para a recuperação de uma literatura perdida e a reconstrução de um druidismo anônimo. Uma vontade de celebração de um passado glorioso deu origem a todo um ciclo historiográfico e literário chamado de Bretonismo, do qual o neo-druidismo é uma vertente.[33] Hersart de La Villemarqué observa na poesia popular bretã, assim como nos costumes e nos contos coletados por ele e por outros folcloristas, “uma mistura bizarra de idéias cristãs e de crenças druídicas amalgamadas.”[34] Outros escritores também viram nas heranças druídicas a explicação para vários elementos do folclore bretão e colocaram seus espíritos criativos em busca de uma tradição bárdica, reconstruindo uma história anônima e uma mística de origem druídica. Obviamente, a imaginação se aliou à pesquisa histórica, mas também a uma irrefutável tradição literária medieval que trazia no seu corpus elementos pré-cristãos.[35]

Contudo, o neo-druidismo, assim como o Bretonismo e todos os outros componentes do Celtismo, fazem parte de uma matéria em que o número de controvérsias excede a soma das concordâncias. Sem dizer que o conteúdo ideológico do período em que foram lançadas as principais bases da Celtologia moderna não é de fácil assimilação, nem tampouco pode ser analisado brevemente. Podemos, no entanto, depois de uma brevíssima apresentação, responder as perguntas iniciais:

1) Como, através dos tempos, teriam chegado até os druidas atuais uma cosmogonia e uma mística que desde os tempos mais remotos nunca foi transmitida textualmente, mas oralmente de mestre a discípulo, e que estaria dependente de uma filiação a uma classe sacerdotal tradicional que deixou de existir na antiguidade tardia?

Para esta resposta somos obrigados a nos reportar à opinião do Professor Christian Guyonvarc´h. Segundo ele, não há como se fabricar rituais e nem preces. Uma religião ou uma tradição mística só pode ser vivenciada através de uma filiação que supõe uma iniciação por sacerdotes e sua transmissão através das eras. Os druidas desapareceram com a cristianização, com eles, seus ritos: “Se existe uma interrupção da filiação não há iniciação possível”.[36] Assim, o antigo neo-druida dos tempos da juventude se desliga do neo-druidismo britônico para se lançar nas fileiras da cientificidade universitária. Mas é preciso se reconhecer na obra deste bretão catedrático da Universidade de Rennes sua imensa contribuição e a incansável busca de uma solução do enigma do druidismo e do que pôde se salvar de informação sobre uma religião céltica da antiguidade. O principal mistério do druidismo reside no seu desaparecimento silencioso diante de uma nova religião que se instaura nos territórios antes ocupados pelos druidas:

L´étude de la transition du “druidisme” au christianisme ne sera possible que lorsque le christianisme primitif des Celtes sera parfaitement connu. Or, les donnés en sont infiniment complexes, d´une part en Gaule où les druides s´effacent devant la religion officielle romaine sans laisser aucune trace tangible, et d´autre part en Irlande où, quelques siècles plus tard, à l´appel de Saint Patrick et de ses successeurs les filid se convertissent et sauvent le fonds mythologique national.[37]
2) Como fabricar rituais sem os arcanos de uma religião, sem textos sagrados e sem iniciação pelos seus sacerdotes?

Esta é uma questão que deve ser respondida pelos neo-druidas, pelos folcloristas e medievalistas “celtisantes”.[38] Para Gwenc´hlan Le Scouezec - Grande Druida da Fraternidade dos druidas, bardos e profetas da Bretanha - a Gorsedd da Bretanha (Bredeuriezh drouized, barzhed hag ovizion Breizh), ligada por filiação à Gorsedd de Gales, os elementos de uma religião druídica não desapareceram com o silêncio dos druidas e tampouco com o silêncio dos cronistas greco-romanos:

Tout en réalité se passe comme si le druidisme avait persisté, mais que le nom du druide avait été effacé par des raisons évidentes! Nous sommes d´ailleurs environnés de pratiques totalement païennes, sans pour autant faire la liaison avec le druidisme. Je pense en particulier au cultes des fontaines. C´est quelque chose qui n´a jamais cessé, malgré des multiples interdits![39]
As práticas milenares de um Cristianismo céltico nas Bretanhas insular e continental, como também na Irlanda, na Galícia e até mesmo em Portugal, fornecem inúmeros elementos que podem ser estudados à luz de uma religião pré-cristã de tipo druídico. Na Bretanha, a presença quase obrigatória de fontes ao lado das capelas mais simples, como das igrejas mais importantes, são testemunhos deste mundo cristianizado que sobrevive até hoje em peregrinações e costumes populares. As fontes também são encontradas em meio à natureza, sobretudo nos centros de florestas que nunca deixaram de produzir não só fenômenos sobrenaturais, como também lendas das mais maravilhosas.

Quanto a Hersart de la Villemarqué, o folclorista e filólogo bretão não deixará de citar a lenda de Santo Ronan, que fez parte de suas coletas para o Barzah Breizh (Bardos da Bretanha) com o seguinte comentário:

Le druidisme existait encore en Armorique au VIe siècle, et avait laissé des traces si profondes que ses cérémonies se sont mêlées à celles de la fête des saints personnages qui ont les plus contribué à l´abolir; ainsi on fait tout les sept ans processionnellement le tour des monuments druidiques qui se trouvent sur la montagne au flanc de laquelle s´élevait dans la forêt de Névet l´ermitage de Saint Ronan.[40]
O patrimônio cultural e religioso bretão oferece um universo de enorme riqueza para o pesquisador. Arqueólogos, historiadores, folcloristas, medievalistas e, obviamente, celtólogos e lingüistas, poderão talvez um dia ultrapassar os preconceitos e as etapas difíceis da matéria para encontrar, no fundo de uma memória pré-cristã, as respostas que desejamos encontrar sobre os druidas e seus mistérios. E talvez seja esta a legítima contribuição da pós-modernidade em relação ao Druidismo antigo.

Belo Horizonte, 08 de junho de 2006.

Bibliografia

ADLER, Margot. Drawing Down the Moon: Witches, Druids, Goddess-Worshippers, and Other Pagans in America Today. Third edition. NY: Penguin, 1997.

CARASSOU-LASSALLETTE, Anne-Marie Magie et néopaganisme aux Etats-Unis à l'aube du troisième millénaire: essai d'interprétation (Thèse de doctorat) Université de Michel de Montaigne-Bordeaux III, France, 2 vol, 619 pp. 2002.

DUMEZIL, G. Mythes et dieux des indo-européens, Flammarion, 1992.

FLEURIOT, Léon. Les Origines de la Bretagne. Paris : Payot, 1980.

GASKILL Howard, (ed.) The Reception of Ossian in Europe, London: Thoemmes Continuum, 2004.

GUIOMAR Jean-Yves Le Bretonisme - les historiens bretons au XIXe siècle, publié par la Société d´Histoire et d´Archéologie de Bretagne, Mayenne, 1987, 445 pp.

GUYONVARC´h, C. & LE ROUX, F. Les Druides. Rennes, Editions Ouest-france, 1986.

HOBSBAWM, E. & RANGER, T. The Invention of Tradition. Cambridge University Press, 1983

JIGOUREL Thierry Les Druides - modernité d´une tradition millénaire. Spézet: Coop Breizh, 2000 (entrevista pag. 96).

JONES, Owen; WILLIANS, Edward; OWEN, William (Eds.) The Myvyrian Archeology of Wales, The general Advertisement, Denbigh: printed and published by Thomas Gee, 1870.

KERLOUEGAN, f. Le De Excidio Britanniae de Gildas - Les destinées de la culture latine dans l'île de Bretagne au VIe siècle, Paris, Publications de la Sorbonne, 1987.

KRUTAS, V. Les Celtes - Histoire et Dictionnaire - Des origines à la romanisation et au christianisme, Paris, Robert Laffont, 2000.

LA VILLEMARQUE, H. De La Myrdhim ou l´Enchanteur Merlin - son histoire, ses oeuvres, son influence, Paris: Terre de Brume, 1989. (1862)

LA VILLEMARQUÉ, H. DE Le Barzhaz Breizh - trésor de la littérature orale de la Bretagne, Spezet, Coop Breizh, 1997.

LE SCOUËZEC, Gwenc´hlan. Le Guide la Bretagne mystérieuse, Spézet: Coop Breizh, 2002. (1966).

______________ Arthur, Roi des Bretons d´Armorique, Paimpont: Le Manoir du Tertre, 1998

______________ Bretagne Terre Sacrée, Spézet: Coop Breizh, 1996.

______________ Dictionnaire de la Tradition bretonne, Rennes: Edition du Félin, 1999.

______________ Itinéraire Spirituel en Bretagne, Rennes: La Table Ronde, 2000.

______________ La tradition des Druides, Rennes: Beltan, 2001, 3 vol

MARHIC, Renaud; KERLIDOU Alain. Sectes et mouvements initiatiques en Bretagne - du Celtisme au Nouvel Âge, Rennes: Terre de Brume Editions, 1996.

RAFTERY, B. Pagan Celtic Ireland - The enigma of the Irish Iron Age London, Thames and Hudson, 1994.

Notas

[*] Bolsista Pós-Doutorado Junior da FAPEMIG atuando na Faculdade de Letras da UFMG e membro do NEAM - Núcleo de Estudos Antigos e Medievais.

[1] Nem sempre estamos livres de ataques clandestinos quando ousamos expor ao ridículo os argumentos, por exemplo, de neopagãos e outras derivações, sem falarmos nas seitas satânicas, que estão longe de ser simples agremiações para se reverter em verdadeiras associações criminosas.

[2] Actu Sectarisme - Cercle Laïque pour la prévention du sectarisme, associação que se propõe a ser na França um observatório destes fenômenos sociais reunindo psiquiatras, psicólogos e sociólogos em torno da questão. Existem várias outras, inclusive as comissões ligadas à UNESCO. http://www.actu-sectarisme.com/]

[3] A grande maioria de seitas observada no cenário francesa é proveniente dos Estados Unidos. De uma certa forma, poderíamos dizer que as “tradições pagãs” comuns a uma herança européia foram substituídas por novas “tradições”, porque seria ingênuo ignorar toda a história européia de sociedades secretas e ocultismo. Na verdade, o neo-paganismo americano tem suas raízes na herança anglo-saxônica, de fundo europeu, mas é fruto de uma outra conformação histórica e por isso se insere como fenômeno pós-moderno. Suas influências na Europa são, portanto, um retorno reconfigurado de elementos europeus medievais.

[4] Carassou-Lassallette, Anne-Marie Magie et néopaganisme aux Etats-Unis à l'aube du troisième millénaire: essai d'interprétation (Thèse de doctorat) Université de Michel de Montaigne-Bordeaux III, France, 2 vol, 619 p. 2002.

[5] O termo irlandês druidecht, que corresponderia a “druidismo”, é tomado na acepção moderna de magia, feitiçaria, arte diabólica, que identifica, portanto, a discrepância entre o druida antigo e o druida decadente da era cristã. In: Guyonvarc´h J-C, Les Druides, Paris: Payot, 1986, p. 383.

[6] O termo é empregado por Luciano de Samóstata ao relatar um diálogo entre um historiador grego e um indígena, portanto, um celta, a propósito da divindade adorada por este chamada Ogmios, que os gregos tratam de identificar a Hércules. Discours 1-7 “Hercule”.

[7] Um excelente estudo e apresentação das diferentes formas para o nome druida em grego e latim pode ser encontrado em Christian Guyonvarc´h, Les Druides (Annexes etymologiques, p. 425 a 444), obra que é referencia inicial e fundamental para qualquer estudo sobre os druidas na antiguidade, aqui citada na nota 5.

[8] Ver o excelente estudo disponível on-line: Lupi, João, Os Druidas BRATHAIR, 4(1), 2004:58-63. www.brathair.com

[9] AUSONE, Commemoratio professorum burdigalensium IV ; 7-10 et X ; 22-30. Poeta latino nascido em Bordeaux, (287-377) preceptor de Graciano, imperador de Roma em 367. Autor das Idílias.

[10] “The complexity of Celtic religious beliefs and practices often defies easy reconstruction from material remains. For archaeology tends to uncover only the end-products of what probably elaborate and long-drawn out ritual activities. Here, therefore, we enter the fascinating realm of speculation” In: Raftery, Barry Pagan Celtic Ireland - The enigma of the Irish Iron Age, London: Thames & Hudson. 1997, p. 179.

[11] Sobre os druidas na arqueologia, devo assinalar a contribuição de Adriene Baron Tacla, doutoranda em Arqueologia Européia, St CrossCollege, Universidade de Oxford, bolsista do CNPq.

[12] Kruta, Vemceslas, Les Celtes - Histoire et Dictionnaire Des origines à la Romanisation et au Christianisme, Paris: Robert Laffont, 2000, p. 582.

[13] Webster, Jane, Roman Word Power and the Celtic Gods, Britannia, Vol. 26, 1995, p. 153-161.

[14] Neste sentido estaríamos devedores da teoria de Dumézil sobre a tripartição das funções na sociedade indo-européia e da mitologia comparada dumeziliana, que identifica sem problemas um fundo comum indo-europeu para as mitologias grega e celta. Mas até aqui estamos falando da arqueologia e da ausência de textos antigos celtas relativos aos cultos religiosos, e de um sistema de expressão figurada que não é sempre passível de paralelismo constante. Esta é a razão de se apontar, do ponto de vista arqueológico, a fragmentação relativa e a problemática análise de uma religião celta. As teorias de Dumézil foram possíveis porque trabalharam com o imenso patrimônio textual indo-europeu em seu conjunto, estabelecendo uma gênese a partir da qual se identificam processos civilizatórios análogos - a teoria da tripartição das sociedades primitivas e suas funções - real, sacerdotal e guerreira, paralelamente aos estudos de filologia e lingüística comparada.

[15] Na verdade, o único dogma que realmente podemos assegurar além, talvez, da transmigração das almas, mas este assunto não seria pertinente aqui.

[16] O termo britônico identifica a língua céltica falada pelos celto-bretões na Bretanha insular antiga - Britannia -, como também a cultura e a história dos bretões em contraposição ao termo britânico, que é moderno e surge como uma apropriação com o Tratado de União entre Escócia e Inglaterra, em 1710, dando início ao imperialismo inglês dentro e fora da “Grande Bretanha”.

[17] Até hoje nos vemos em dificuldades ao tentarmos nos desvencilhar da famosa teoria das sociedades tripartidas que deram origem à civilização indo-européia. Somos obrigados a admitir que nada apareceu ainda que possa redimensionar, através de bases sólidas, a teoria dumeziliana.

[18] Guyoncarc´h, C-J & Le Roux, F. Les Druides, Rennes: Editions Ouest-France, 1998, p. 269 (trad. nossa).

[19] Paul Russell, The Sounds of a Silence: The Growth of Cormac's Glossary, Cambrian Medieval Celtic Studies 15, Summer 1988.

[20] Existem diferentes tipos de sociedades druídicas, que possibilitam uma tentativa de classificação como a que segue: sociedades druídicas por definição, grupos paganisantes, grupos esotéricos e os neo-cristãos célticos, que demandaria não apenas uma nota, mas um outro estudo. Esta nova vertente do Cristianismo não reivindica um neo-druidismo, mas sim as especificidades do Cristianismo céltico e a recuperação de seus ritos. Ver a respeito: http://www.orthodoxie-celtique.net/, (acesso em 04.06.2006).

[21] Alguns autores consideram uma datação que se segue: Paleodruidismo de 1000 AC até 600 DC, Mesodruidismo de 1717 até hoje e Neodruidismo de 1963 até hoje. O Mesodruidismo com filiação no País de Gales e o Neodruidismo nascido nos Estados Unidos - uma espécie de dissidência da tradição que remonta aos velhos senhores do druidismo romântico, uma espécie de protestantismo druídico que se auto proclama Refomed Druids of North América (1963) combinando preces à Mãe Terra, Zen-Budismo, culto às divindades célticas e misticismo cristão. Adler, Margot. Drawing Down the Moon: Witches, Druids, Goddess-Worshippers, and Other Pagans in America Today. Third edition. NY: Penguin, 1997.

[22] Brut y tywysogyon, The chronicle of the princes: Peniarth Ms. 20 version/translated with introduction and notes by Thomas Jones Series: History and law series, Board of Celtic Studies, University of Wales; no. 11, Publisher: Cardiff: University of Wales Press, 1985 (tradução nossa).

[23] Strabon IV, 4, 4, Pline Nat. Hist. XXX, 13, dente outros.

[24] Catraeth: local da batalha em que os bretões do norte, comandados por Mynyddawg Mawr, foram derrotados, dando origem à elegia cantada pelo bardo Aneurim. Primeira menção a Arthur como personagem heróico. Aneurim faz menção por sua vez a Myrdhim como bardo-profeta dos bretões.

[25] Que, por sua vez, esteve em contato freqüente com Gerald Gardner, que primeiro introduziu a Wicca: pseudo-religião que se pretende antiga, pré-cristã sendo uma das principais vertentes do neo-paganismo moderno, que reivindica uma “sabedoria oculta” das bruxas.

[26] Gaskill Howard, (ed.) The Reception of Ossian in Europe, London: Thoemmes Continuum, 2004.

[27] JONES, Owen; WILLIANS, Edward ; OWEN, William (Eds.) The Myvyrian Archeology of Wales, The general Advertisement, Denbigh: printed and published by Thomas Gee, 1870.

[28] Morgan, Prys, 'From a Death to a View: the Hunt for the Welsh Past in the Romantic Period' In: Hobsbawm, E. & Ranger, T. The Invention of Tradition Cambridge University Press, 1983. p. 66.

[29] As migrações bretãs (ou britônicas) para o continente tiveram várias razões, mas a partir da obra de Gildas - De Excidio et Conquestu Britanniae - tornou-se quase obrigatório mencionar os saxões como principais responsáveis pelo êxodo da aristocracia em direção ao continente, pela insistência do cronista em ressaltar este fato.

[30] Apenas dois santos não vieram da ilha, segundo a tradição: Corentinus e Paternus, nativos da Armórica, o que significa que antigos laços culturais já reuniam os bretões insulares e armoricanos desde tempos remotos. Os outros santos são Aurelianus, Briocus, Tugdualus, Sampsonis, Malon, (que deu origem ao nome da cidadela de Saint-Malo, famosa pela sua história de navegação). Sobre a migração bretã para a Armórica, ver: fléuriot, Leon Les Origines de la Bretagne, Paris: Payot, 1999.

[31] Que não é nada mais nada menos do que uma reconfiguração, em tons sensacionalistas, da tese de Michael Baigent, Henry Lincoln, Richard Leigh, publicada em 1983 pela Dell Publishing Company e intitulada Holy Blood, Holy Grail, 496 p. Estamos aqui diante do que poderíamos considerar um plágio simples.

[32] Cf. nossas referências bibliográficas das obras de Gwench´lan Le Scouezec.

[33] Guiomar Jean-Yves Le Bretonisme - les historiens bretons au XIXe siècle, publié par la Société d´Histoire et d´Archéologie de Bretagne, Mayenne, 1987, 445 p.

[34] La Villemarqué, H. De La Myrdhim ou l´Enchanteur Merlin - son histoire, ses oeuvres, son influence, Paris: Terre de Brume, 1989. (1862)

[35] «...après tout, le druide et le druidisme ne subsistent que dans le domaine du littéraire et du folklorique. En Irlande, les exemplaires de l´écriture oghamique ne représentant pas un ensemble d´informations substantielles sur le druidisme et ses prêtres.» In: donnard, Ana Arthur en Bretagne, Arthur pour les Bretons, (thèse de Doctorat) Université de Rennes, 2004.

[36] Jigourel Thierry Les Druides - modernité d´une tradition millénaire, Spézet: Coop Breizh, 2000, p. 145.

[37] Guyonvarc´h, Les Druides, p. 10.

[38] O termo celtisants em francês foi primeiro empregado na historiografia literária do mito arturiano para distinguir os autores que privilegiavam a teoria da transmissão dos elementos célticos como fundadores de uma tradição literária ocidental, diferenciando-os dos romanistas, que viam nas tradições literárias francesas a fontes primordiais da matéria da Bretanha.

[39] Jigourel Thierry Les Druides - modernité d´une tradition millénaire, Spézet: Coop Breizh, 2000 (entrevista, p. 96).

[40] Citado por Guiomar, J-Y IN: Le Bretonisme, pag. 191.

página pertencente ao site http://www.pucsp.br/rever
Revista Eletrônica Rever - ISSN 1677-1222

Joe Michael Straczynski em Wonder Woman!!

2010-03-10T00:30:00.000-08:00

Porque sangue de fã tem poder!!!

Gloria ,aleluia!!!

Obrigado Quesada por fazer o grande favor de tirar o JMS das garras da Marvel e das paginas do Thor e colocá-lo, enfim , onde ele poderá fazer o trabalho glorioso que a Amazona merece!!!! My most sincere thanks!!

NO LIMITS: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI ON SUPERMAN, WONDER WOMAN
Monday, March 8th, 2010

By Alex Segura

One of my very earliest memories as a child is of watching one of the Superman cartoons created by Max Fleischer. In particular, a scene where Superman puts his cape around Lois Lane to protect her from an incoming tide of molten metal. I imprinted on that image like a baby duck, and a lot of what I laughingly call my personality was formed in that moment (which is why a cel-recreation of that image is one of the first things you see upon entering my home, before you get to the row of wall after wall covered with artwork by Alex Ross, Curt Swan and others, as well as just about every bit of Superman memorabilia ever produced).

As a kid growing up in the mean streets of New Jersey, Superman was an icon for me. It was a tough life: we moved about 21 times in my first 17 years, we didn’t have much money, and every day was a struggle. When I told grown-ups that I was going to be a writer someday, nobody listened, nobody thought I had a chance, because as far as teachers were concerned, kids like me who came from nowhere and nothing were dead-enders, destined to end up working at the gas station at best or in jail at worst. Writers were supposesd to be Ivory Tower guys with leather patches on the elbows of their smoking jackets, who went to the right schools and came from the right families. I lived in the world of No, a place populated by bullies and street fights and tenements, with no possibility of escape.

But Superman…see, Superman could do anything. If there was someplace he didn’t want to be, he could just fly away. And he couldn’t be hurt, which to a kid who got beat up pretty regularly in fights and elsewhere was a pretty attractive idea. Superman taught me the morals and ethics I draw up on to this day: to play fair, not to lie, and to be willing to put yourself between harm and those you care about.

If Superman could do anything, then maybe I had a chance. Maybe I could become a writer. Maybe I could even learn to fly. That symbol, the S, became a badge for me, and growing up I always made sure I had it somewhere on me, like a shaman’s charm. That may sound silly, and from a grown-up perspective it probably is silly, but as Henry Kissinger once said, it has the added benefit of being true. And it helped me get through the hard times, which is why I continue that practice to this day…right now it’s on a key-chain in my pocket.

For me, and I suspect for a lot of people, that symbol stands for the belief in our own potentiality, in what we think we can do, and try, and aspire to. I was watching the news recently, and they were showing Palistinian protests, followed by a story on the night life scene in LA, and later on, a live report from London about somethingorother…and in the background of each of those stories there was somebody wearing a Superman t-shirt or cap. It’s universal.

And there’s a reason for that, a secret no one knows, but I’ll tell you, because of how long I’ve known you, and our longstanding friendship.

And the secret is this:

The Superman symbol is Kryptonian for No Limits.

And whether or not you speak Kryptonian (or Kryptonese), you know that…you know that deep inside, where even the cynicism of the world cannot reach.

I’ve told this story before in other places, so at risk of being redundant…back a few years ago, I was at the Chicago Comic Con when a guy in his 20s grabbed a bunch of expensive stuff off a table in the dealer’s room and made a run for it. The ownere ran after him down the aisle, yelling “stop him!” As he came in my direction, everybody parted like the Red Sea.

I brought him down like a gazelle, and we held him untnil the police showed up.

Afterward, one of the con organizers said to me, “Why’d you do that? He’s a big guy, you could’ve gotten hurt.”

And I pointed to where I’d been standing when it happened: right in front of a ten-foot-tall cutout of Superman. “How could I stand in front of that, in front of him,” I said, “and do nothing?”

As Superman has been for me, so Wonder Woman has been for a lot of women readers, so the chance to dive into that character is something I’m eagerly anticipating. This is a strong, mythic, powerful character who for some time now has been kind of drowning under the weight of her own mythos, so I’m looking forward to paring away some of the layers of debris and undergrowth that have piled up around her in order to get to the core of the character.

Coming from the world of TV and film, the first rule you learn is to service the main character more than anything else, so I’ll be writing with an eye firmly fixed on that rule.

As part of that process, we’re going to be looking more closely at how Wonder Woman appears, and functions, and her role in the DCU…and what we have planned will, we hope, come across as dynamic and powerful as she deserves to be.

Similarly, we plan to bring Superman back to his roots, to really explore who he is…how he sees us, and how we see him, in a much more personal way than we’ve seen in a while. This is part of a larger effort that will have national ramifications, but I can’t say much more about it than that for now. Keep an eye on this website for more information when the time is right…but for now, let’s just say that Superman may be a lot closer in proximity to you, the reader, than you ever guessed.

To kick off both efforts by appearing in the anniversary issues of these two characters is a great opportunity, and a good jumping-on point for readers.

If there’s any other message in this to readers, it’s in these two characters as icons of hope, that it doesn’t make any difference where you come from, or where you went to school, or who you are, there’s hope. That a kid from Jersey with Superman as the icon that kept him alive for years would one day end up writing the character is as absoutely unlikely as it is utterly inevitable. And if that’s true for me, it’s true for you, if you follow your dreams and your passions in full flight.

Don’t give up.

No Limits. It’s never too late to learn to fly.

J. Michael Straczynski

Oromë e Tilion-O Deus de Chifres Celta no Legendarium de Tolkien

2010-03-06T11:35:00.000-08:00

O Senhor da Caçada Selvagem, o deus de chifres celta e a “Lua do Caçador”

Muitas vezes quando se está tentando explicar Tolkien é comum se recorrer a analogias para tornar mais claro a linha de raciocínio. Algumas pessoas acham que isso torna a explicação longa demais e ininteligível , na maioria das vezes, porque passa a se estender por mais do que dez linhas. Mas a verdade é que a obra de Tolkien por ser construída através de bricolagem, com o uso de fontes heterogêneas “coladas” e transformadas pelo contexto que ele cria, só é realmente bem compreendida pelo uso de analogias, já que sendo o mundo inventado de raíz nem todas as partes serão detalhadas e explicadas com o mesmo grau de minúcia, gerando os pontos obscuros do Legendarium. Tolkien frequentemente usou analogias para explicar e definir conceitos criados a partir de homólogos do “mundo real”, seja destacando inspirações mitológicas,teológicas ou modelos históricos para o que ele fazia na Terra- Média

O rastreio das influências, quando feito com critério, é uma excelente porta de entrada para os processos de pensamento do artista que, assim sendo, pode ser melhor estudado e compreendido. O procedimento que pode receber a alcunha de engenharia reversa, é um intrumento notável que dirime dúvidas e evita erros por parte de intérpretes, tradutores e consumidores do trabalho artístico.

Um exemplo singelo e, porém, elucidativo pode ser encontrado na mitologia criada por Tolkien. Em sua criação mitopéica o mundo é regido por entidades benignas que, grosso modo, podem ser equiparadas aos deuses pagãos. Um desses seres, guardiões do Mundo Material, Oromë, tem, como um de seus servos, um semi-deus, ou “espírito” de menor estatura que é o timoneiro da nave que é a lua terrestre. No texto em inglês é dito que o nome desse gênio é Tilion, cujo nome significa “ the horned”. O elemento “til” do seu nome é traduzido como “chifre” que em inglês é “horn”. Horned então deveria ser traduzido, literalmente, como “portador de chifres”, ou “munido de chifres” ( como feito na edição brasileira da Martins Fontes) para se evitar as conotações pejorativas atribuídas aos termos “chifrudo” ou “cornudo” no nosso idioma.

.
Oromë e Tulkas-irmãos de armas no traço de Tiago Kirsch-tem o grande mérito de ser ,até onde sei, a única representação de Orome adornado com chifres

Entretanto, “horn” em inglês também pode ser traduzido como “ curva” ou “ponta” ( de onde proveio também a expressão “horny” correspondente a sexualmente excitado) e a autora da tradução do livro em Portugal acabou traduzindo “horned” como “ encurvado” porque não conseguiu compreender por que uma entidade benevolente seria denominada “chifruda” no contexto dos mitos de Tolkien onde o demônio judaico-cristão é um colega rebelado de Oromë e dos demais “deuses”.

Deusa Artemis e seu arco "encurvado" representando uma argêntea lua nova

Oromë e seu arco arbóreo, na arte de Daniel Govar, reparem nas discretas ramificações sutilmente reminiscentes de chifres no elmo do vala

Tal equívoco poderia ter sido evitado se a tradutora, que, no geral, fez um trabalho magistral, soubesse que os chifres associados à figura do Demônio na iconografia cristã são resultantes de um processo de sincretização ( que, claro, também é um tipo de bricolagem) que o Satã bíblico sofreu com entidades da mitologia celta tutelares dos ritos sazonais que festejavam a fecundidade, a qual , aliás, é o simbolismo original dos chifres.

Na mitologia céltica, a entidade chamada Herne ( mesma raiz de horn e de corno), Cernunos, Carnum, representa o ciclo infindável de morte e renascimento vivenciado pela natureza e, portanto, acabou associada não somente aos rituais da fertilidade, mas, também, ao Submundo , o reino Inferior onde habitam os mortos. Sob esse aspecto, como captor e regente dos mortos, Herne recebia o nome de Gwyn Mab Nud ou Arawn e era o governante de Annyvn, o Submundo celta, e, portanto, um equivalente do greco-romano Hades/Plutão.

Gwyn Mab Nud ou Arawn eram tidos como os condutores da chamada Caçada Selvagem que, por ocasião do Equinócio de Outono, fendia os céus setentrionais da Europa numa celebração dionisíaca da vida que era uma rememoração em nome dos finados e, também, uma preparação para a morte simbólica da natureza que, em breve, perderia seu viço ante a chegada do Inverno*. A trompa desses deuses caçadores era um presságio para a morte, e uma lembrança, de que a vida se nutre do passamento cíclico da luz para a escuridão, e de que, deste modo, a Longa Noite do Inverno também fazia parte da natureza harmoniosa do Mundo.

* O que faz do Demônio Escuridão no filme a Lenda uma versão maligna da divindade celta. e uma clara derivação ou herança das mesmas fontes que inspiraram Tolkien e o Demônio Medieval .

Ocorre, entretanto, que o deus tolkieniano Oromë, do qual Tilion “cornudo” era um vassalo, não somente era o protetor das florestas, assim como Herne, como, também, era o Grande Caçador, cujo nome significa, precisamente, Tocador de Trompa ( que é também “horn” em inglês porque as trompas eram , originalmente, feitas com os chifres de animais, vide o nosso “berrante” ). Oromë, que tinha muitos nomes entre os homens ( que seriam, assim, os vários apelidos dados ao mesmo arquétipo) era chamado nas regiões meridionais de Gondor, um reino na mitologia de Tolkien, de Araw , um nome que, obviamente , é a versão tolkieniana do celta Arawn.

Empregando a engenharia reversa, torna-se claro o motivo que levou Tolkien a batizar de “cornudo” um servo de um deus benéfico. Os caracteres do deus celta que serviu de inspiração para o “vala” de Tolkien foram redistribuídos entre Oromë e seu vassalo. Oromë ficou sendo o caçador, o portador do nome Araw e o tocador de trompa, senhor da Caçada Selvagem, enquanto Tilion ficou sendo o “munido de chifres” e um caçador menor do séqüito de Oromë.

Mais tarde, promovido a guardião da flor mística, que é a luz da lua, e piloto da nave que é o orbe lunar, ele se torna o “Homem da Lua”, e os chifres que são seus atributos se ajustam perfeitamente à nova função porque os animais com cornos também são associados com a lua que é símbolo de fertilidade assim como os chifres ( daí o conceito de “cornucópia” ).

Também não é obra do acaso que em inglês exista uma expressão muito conhecida chamada a “Lua do Caçador”. É a lua cheia que mostra as presas a serem caçadas durante a noite, sobretudo a que vem no mês de Outubro no Hemisfério norte, o mesmo mês da folclórica Caçada Selvagem..

Yavanna, Oromë e seu "casamento" cósmico-A Hierogamia entre o deus e a deusa

Essa ligação com o Deus de Chifres também ajuda a esclarecer porque é que Yavanna no tempo de HoME V, The Lost Road, concebia Oromë como um dos seus filhos, aparentemente, sem ter ainda casado com Aulë. Naquele tempo da concepção do Legendarium não existiam ainda os Maiar e diversos deles eram filhos dos Valar.

Tal relação, similar à que Hera tinha com Hefesto e a de Zeus com Atena, onde os deuses concebiam filho sem consorte , no caso dos dois Valar, se explica muito melhor com a noção de que a Deusa da Terra e da fauna e flora célticaformava um casal "cósmico" com o Deus de Chifres onde ela era, ao mesmo tempo, a Mãe e a Esposa dele, simbolicamente, gerando o deus vegetal que morria e ressuscitava todo os anos e que era o Senhor das Feras e o Caçador quando renascido a partir do seio de sua Mãe Terra.Por isso e que a irmã mais nova de Yavanna, Vána, era a esposa de Oromë, lembrando muito a Blodeuwedd celta, a dama das flores.Digno de nota é que Vana era o nome sânscrito para "floresta", diversos nomes do idioma valarin de Tolkien parecem calcados no sânscrito e no hindi, o que evoca novamente a noção de casamento da Deusa-Terra com o Rei das Feras

E esse negócio de concepção "imaculada" hein? interessante que é por isso que Marion Zimmer Bradley disse que todos os deuses e todas as deusas são um só Deus e uma só Deusa.)

Então é provavelmente por isso que Tolkien, uma vez, fez com que Oromë fosse produto do pensamento de Yavanna sozinha, uma espécie de versão menor do que ocorria com os Valar e Eru Ilúvatar.Assim como eles eram a prole do pensamento do Único , Yavanna também teria a singularidade de gerar uma vida independente a partir dos seus próprios pensamentos, como se ela tivesse expelido de si própria uma versão masculina do seu ser.Essa idéia depois foi reaproveitada quando Tolkien fez dela a genitora da raça dos Ents , que são Jacks do Verde, ou Homen Verde,Green Man, correspondente à versão sacrificial sazonal do Deus de Chifres, interpretado por Tom Cruise no fime A Lenda.

Uma projeção do Animus ( a parte "masculina" da psiquê na concepção de Jung) tornada autosuficiente. que se dedicava a proteger com fúria e armas as coisas que ela prezava e protegia de forma "passiva".

and Orome was the offspring of YAvanna, who is after named, but not as the Children of the Gods born in this world, for he came of her thought ere the world was made.

e Oromë era o rebento de Yavanna, que está mencionada depois, mas não como os Filhos dos Deuses nascidos neste mundo, pois ele proveio do seu pensamento antes do mundo ser feito.

É provável também que o nome de Oromë como guardião das Florestas igualmente refletisse essa origem céltica, já que ele era chamado Tauron, lembrando, automaticamente, touro, tauros em latin, um animal de chifres , frequentemente oferecido como sacrifício aos deuses, associado com a divindade celta Tarvos Trigaranus

Esse, por sua vez, é quase idêntico a outro nome dado a Oromë no tempo de The Lays of Beleriand, Tavros.Tavros que também significa "touro" em grego e é o nome de uma cidade) . Então, temos Tauron, que no Tolkien significa "da floresta", derivado do latin tauros, temos Tavros adaptado do grego, tavros, gerando um análogo do nome gaulês para touro, Tarvos, que era o nome de uma divindade.

Then Thingol said: '0 Dairon fair,
thou master of all musics rare, 885
0 magic heart and wisdom wild,
whose ear nor eye may be beguiled,
what omen doth this silence bear?
What horn afar upon the air,
what summons do the woods await? 890
Mayhap the Lord Tavros from his gate
and tree-propped halls, the forest-god,
rides his wild stallion golden-shod
amid the trumpets' tempest loud,
amid his green-clad hunters proud,

The name Tavros given to Orome (891, 904) has occurred long before in the Gnomish dictionary, defined as the 'chief wood-fay, the Blue Spirit of the Woods' (I. 267, entry Tavari). With his tree-propped halls (892) compare the description of Orome's dwelling in Valmar in the tale of The Coming of the Valar and the Building of Valinor, I. 75 - 6. At line 893 is the first mention of the golden hooves of Orome's horse.

O análogo de Cernunnos e de Oromë no jogo Warcraft, o Semi-Deus Cenarius, defensor da Floresta,filho da Deusa-Mãe dos Elfos da noite, a deusa da lua , Elune. Eu sempre me perguntei o porque dele ser "azul". Parece que ai pode estar a resposta, ele parece ser uma engenharia revertida de Oromë voltando-o o pra sua fonte que é Cernunnos , o deus de chifres

O touro então, desempenhava um papel importante na ignota e misteriosa cosmogonia celta e, provavelmente, era ligado à imagem do Deus de Chifres tal como era adorado entre os Cretenses, o que teria originado o mito do Minotauro entre os gregos.

"A família que caça unida..." de Jonathan Earl Bowser

Juntos ambos os deuses, o Deus de Chifres e a Deusa Terra, no imaginário "celta" reconstruído do seculo XX, são os mantenedores da ordem natural do Mundo e, por isso, Tolkien parece ter feito de Yavanna e Oromë os mais afeiçoados à Terra Média, sendo seus arquétipos e características ecoados até um certo grau , junto com suas influências no caráter e natureza misteriosos de Tom Bombadil e Goldberry.

Discussão arquivada sobre o assunto nesse link

Tuatha Dé Danann e os Elfos de Tolkien

2010-03-05T12:30:00.000-08:00

Outro dia no forum da Valinor que , recentemente sofreu uma cataclismica perda de dados correspondente as atualizaçoes dos ultimos quatro meses Anwel escreveu isso dai:

O que eu já li no livro "Explorando o Druidismo Celta", é que os Tuatha Dé Dannan era uma antiga família de "deuses", filhos de Dannan, ou Danu.

Até onde eu entendi o livro, não tem nada correlacionado com os elfos.

Bom, os Tuatha Dé Danaan, assim como os elfos Noldor de Tolkien, eram detentores de grande poder mágico, eram "imortais" mas podiam morrer por desgosto ou ferimento físico superior ao seu dom de regeneração, tinham uma pátria paradisíaca além do Oceano Ocidental ( País do Verão, Tir na Nog ou Hy Brazil), exatamente igual a Aman, reencarnavam do mesmo modo que os elfos de Tolkien reencarnavam no começo do Legendarium, viviam entre "dois Mundos" como o Glorfindel depois de reencarnado e trazido de volta à Terra Média, chegaram à terra da Irlanda e enfrentaram ou entraram em acordo com seres "aparentados" com eles próprios que tinham características monstruosas ou "menos luminosas" ( os Firbolg, paralelos aos Moriquendi, elfos cinzentos e os Fomoire, paralelos aos Orcs.

Vale ressaltar que o nome dos Fomoire ( "submarinos") lembra na fonética e no significado um nome alternativo dos Teleri, Falmari, "elfos das ondas"). Os Tuatha tinham como base de operações do seu Grande Rei , mesmo título dado ao Rei Supremo dos Noldor ( High King) que governava os outros reis menores, um monte chamado Tara, lembrando o nome da habitação original daquele que seria High King dos Noldor mais tarde, o monte Taras de Turgon em Vinyamar.

Também um dos Tuatha, Nuada "Mão de Prata" ( "coincidentemente" o mesmo significado de Celebrimbor) perdeu uma mão na guerra com os Firbolg e abdicou do trono em favor de Bres, o formoso, assim como Maedhros perdeu uma mão e abdicou da soberania dos Noldor em prol de seu tio , Fingolfin. Também os Tuatha Dé Danan queimaram os seus barcos quando chegaram na Irlanda assim como os Noldor queimaram os deles , apenas por um motivo diferenciado da mesquinharia de Fëanor ( mas a traição e o medo de deserção também eram a explicação).

E essa lista não exaure as similaridades, tem muito mais de onde elas vieram e só agora estão sendo devidamente estudadas mesmo em inglês. Então, Anwel, pode ter certeza que existe sim MUITA similaridade entre os Noldor e os Tuatha Dé Danaan , por mais que Tolkien declamasse em verso e prosa sua "certa aversão " pela mitologia céltica e os "ares" e a língua da Terra da Irlanda. Algumas dos Tuatha De Danaan foram inspiraçao para outros personagens do Legendarium alem dos proprios elfos, inclusive alguns dos Valar como Orome e Ulmo e aspectos de Yavanna, Vana, e Tilion, alem de Tom Bombadil e Goldberry.

OsTuatha de Danaan como aparecem no universo Marvel

Excelente página sobre isso em português:

http://www.templodeavalon.com/modules/mastop_publish/?tac=Tuatha_D%E9_Dannan

Quem quiser ver mais sobre isso pode dar uma olhada no ensaio da Dimitra Fimi , Mad Elves and Elusive Beauty, some celtic strands in Tolkien's mythology.

"Mad" Elves and "elusive beauty": some Celtic strands of Tolkien's mythology (http://de-vagaesemhybrazil.blogspot.com/2009/09/mad-elves-and-elusive-beauty-some.html)

Aí no blog está postado com as belíssimas ilustrações de Jim Fitzpatrick feitas para seus dois albuns sobre mitologia celta.

Tambem comentaram a tese de que os irlandeses cristianizados identificaram seus "elfos", os sidhe com anjos semi-caidos que ficaram neutros na batalha com os Anjos Rebeldes

Dunstran, aonde vc leu sobre esses "indecisos" , numca ouvi falar deles, mais acho q gostaria de saber mais sobre esse assunto.

Essa é uma explicação popular nos manuscritos medievais para explicar o povo das fadas Leniel. Como acontecia com outras religiões, os seres místicos "pagãos" eram associados com os anjos caídos mas o texto medieval que popularizou essa noção dos "elfos" sendo neutros na guerra do Céu e , por isso, terem caído teve sua fonte principal no Navigatio Sancti Brendani abbatis (The Voyage of Saint Brendan the abbot) do século 9. Tolkien ,inclusive, fez um poema, Imram, baseado nesse texto, incluído em HoME IX. A Viagem de São Brandão e seus antecessores célticos não cristãos como a viagem de Maeldun, são a base para a história de Eärendil.

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Imram

Está sendo traduzido para o português aí
http://navigatio.incubadora.fapesp.br/portal/brendani e a versão em inglês foi salva do cache do Google e postada aí

http://de-vagaesemhybrazil.blogspot.com/2009/10/nauigatio-sancti-brendani-abbatis.html

Textos excelentes falando sobre a obra aí:

http://publicacoes.unigranrio.com.br/index.php/reihm/article/viewFile/472/463

http://www.brathair.com/revista/numeros/03.02.2003/folclore.pdf

Essa é a tal conversa que São Brandão teve com um dos espíritos sob a forma de um pássaro no "Paraíso dos Pássaros" ( lembranças de Elwing e sua forma de gaivota e depois sua forma alada em Valinor)onde o espírito falou dos motivos da queda da sua estirpe, o fato de terem ficado "em cima do muro".

* A idéia dos elfos "malignos" pode ter a ver com a supressão do paganismo pela cristandade. Segundo uma lenda popular na Escandinávia medieval,A idéia dos elfos "malignos" pode ter a ver com a supressão do paganismo pela cristandade. Segundo uma lenda popular na Escandinávia medieval, quando Lúcifer se rebelou contra Deus, muitos anjos se uniram à rebelião, muitos outros ficaram do lado "divino, mas houve um grupo que ficou "em cima do muro": nem se aliaram ao Diabo, nem lutaram contra ele. Os anjos rebeldes foram lançados no inferno, mas os anjos "indecisos" foram condenados apenas a abandonar o Céu e a viver na Terra. Segundo a lenda, esses anjos são os ancestrais das fadas - às vezes identificadas com os elfos da luz -, dos anões e dos demais "espíritos" e "gênios".

Trata-se , sim, de uma lenda medieval popular, só que essa história não é escandinava, é gaélica e irlandesa na sua origem. Essa preocupação de situar os "elfos" na hierarquia cristã dos seres criados por Deus era típica da Escócia e da Irlanda em seus textos medievais e essa tensão se comunicou aos ingleses depois que eles anexaram os dois estados à Grã-Bretanha.

Thereupon one of the birds flew off the tree, and in his flight his wings had a tinkling sound like little bells, over to the boat where the man of God was seated; and, perching on the prow, it spread out its wings in token of gladness, and looked complacently towards St Brendan. Then the man of God, understanding from this that his prayer was granted, addressed the bird: ‘If you are a messenger from God, tell me whence have those birds come, and why this concourse of them here?’ The bird at once made answer: ‘We are partakers in the great ruin of the ancient enemy, having fallen, not by sin of our will or consent, but soon after our creation our ruin resulted from the fall of Lucifer and his followers. The Almighty God, however, who is righteous and true, has doomed us to this place, where we suffer no pain, and where we can partially see the Divine presence, but must remain apart from the spirits who stood faithful. We wander about the world, in the air, and earth, and sky, like the other spirits on their missions; but on festival days we take the shapes you see, abide here, and sing the praises of our Creator.

Mas onde foi que esses "espíritos" acabaram associados, explicitamente, com os "elfos"? Aí eu recorro ao livro do Prof. Shippey , the Road to Middle Earth, onde ele, complementando o comentário da fonte mais antiga achada pela Dimitra Fimi,esclarece:

This is not, for once, the Beowulf-poet, who took a strong line
on ylfe or elves, putting them into a list with 'ettens' and indeed
with 'orcs' - a very stern view of all non-human and unchristian
species. But at least one other English poet preceded Tolkien in
being less sure, the author of the legend of St Michael in The Early South English Legendary, written about 1250. Tolkien never mentions reading this, but it is unlikely that as a medievalist he did not. What the Middle English poet has to say, in essence,is that in the war between God and Satan for men's souls, there may perhaps be neutrals. In the War in Heaven not all the angels were whole-heartedly for God or for Lucifer. The ones who inclined toward the devils without actually joining them are accordingly confined in tempests till Doomsday, when they will go to Hell.Correspondingly, those who wavered towards God have been sent from Heaven to Earth, where 'they will be in a certain pain up to the end of the world, but at Doomsday they shall return to Heaven. Others are still in the Earthly Paradise, and in other places on Earth, doing their penance.' Both good and evil spirits come to Earth to protect or corrupt men, but these neutrals can be seen too:

And ofte in fourme of wommane: In many derne weye
grete compaygnie men i-seoth of heom: bope hoppie and
plei3e,Pat Eluene beoth i-cleopede: and ofte heo comiez to toune,And bi daye muche in wodes heo beoth: and bi ni3te ope hei3e dounes.Pat beoth pe wrechche gostes: Pat out of heuene weren i-nome,And manie of heom a-domesday: 3eot schullen to reste come.

And often men see great numbers of them, shaped like women,
dancing and sporting on many dark paths. These are called
Elves (my italics), and often they come to town, and by day they are usually in the woods, by night on high hills. Those are the wretched spirits that were taken from Heaven. And at Doomsday many of them shall still come to rest.

A Chegada dos Tuatha De Danaan em meio a nuvens provocadas por sua feitiçaria ou pelo incendio de seus barcos (ou ambos, como em Slaine, o Deus de Chifres na versao de Pat Mills

Então o texto é a Lenda de São Miguel, compilada no século XIII, bem posterior ao texto medieval contendo a história de São Brandão e incluída nesse tal aí (ahhh , como tudo é fácil hj em dia com a Internet, não é mesmo?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_English_Legendary

Vocês vêm que foi dai que Tolkien concebeu a idéia de que os Noldor caíram, não por seguirem Melkor, mas por não obedecerem aos Valar e repudiarem sua vassalagem. Em certo sentido, eles são mesmo "anjos caídos" por não terem tomado partido numa guerra de forma adequada contra o "Morgoth".

Entrevista com a Dimitra Fimi, a primeira especialista moderna a destacar de forma sistematica o debito de Tolkien para com os Tuatha de Danaan

Avatar, Deuses de Chifres, consortes de Deusas e suas montarias

2010-02-16T12:12:00.000-08:00

Jake Sully, o Toruk Makto de Avatar a mais nova encarnação ficcional do Deus de Chifres?

De tempos em tempos o arquétipo parece ressurgir sob várias formas e disfarces. Desde Mightor, o desenho da Hanna Barbera ,Oromë e Tilion no Legendarium da Terra Media, passando pela Lenda de Ridley Scott e Sláine de Pat Mills até chegar a Kamui e Fuma do X , ao Hellboy ,o Deus da Floresta de Mononoke Hime e o rei élfico de Hellboy II ( o filme) com seu filho parricida Nuada, a imagem é recorrente e parece ter achado sua nova forma ( ou ousaria eu dizer?) avatar no filme de James Cameron.

O mais antigo protótipo conhecido dele aparecendo numa versão com montaria deve ser esse daí:

Confiram imagem em alto relevo mesopotâmico contendo imagens do Deus de Chifres, no caso, Dumuzi e sua montaria dragão

Um tema recorrente que aparece em várias formas e disfarces na mitologia e na ficção-científica. O Deus de Chifres consorte de uma Deusa que é ao mesmo tempo, filho e marido dela, que morre e ressuscita periodicamente por seu intermédio, sua "graça" (Grace Augustine anyone?) , e simboliza a regeneração sazonal da natureza depois da noite invernal.

Rei Balor, o "Galhudo", deus de Chifres elfico de Hellboy II e o Exercito Dourado

Sláine, Horned God.

o Deus da Floresta em Mononoke Hime

Hummmm, Deus de Chifres e seu dragão azul né?

E só porque é cool demais pra deixar passar em branco, já que sessão nostalgia e insights de comparações retroativas agora baixou de vez...

E , não, eu também não me esqueci de vocês dois Zok e Zandor

Aliás , um dos desenhos dos Herculóides ( que incidentalmente tb moravam em uma árvore, um gigantesco cogumelo, tinha um nome bem interessante: o Retorno de Torrak ( Toruk/Torrak?)

Não podemos nos esquecer também de Blackstar, outro intrépido terrestre, um astronauta a la Flash Gordon que acabou em um mundo de fantasia e montando um dragão alado, Warlock, enquanto peitava um tirano, o Lorde Supremo, the Evil Overlord.

Esse era outro que além de gostar de montarias draconianas aladas também vivia com os trobbits ( hobbits arbóreos , (tree + hobbits) sacaram a piadinha?) em uma árvore gigante supercolorida, a Sagar, conectada com um poder mágico que os trobbits podiam acessar quando precisavam.

Será que Avatar também pode ter sido cooptado pela atual onda de Renascimento Céltico que está tomando conta de tudo que é tipo de mídia? Parece bem provável. O Deus de Chifres comandando a Caçada Selvagem encabeçando um exército de "banshees" contra o incautos seres humanos violadores da Mãe-Natureza?

Shishigami,o Espírito da Floresta de Mononoke Hime

Aí embaixo está a representação da versão má, louca , do Deus de Chifres no Mononoke Hime do Miyazaki. Reparem na coloração azul da pele e os veios de luz fosforecente, lembrando formas de vida abissal, que foram muito estudadas por Cameron recentemente e que influenciaram a pigmentação bioluminescente dos Na'vi de Avatar.

Comparar com o desenho da nuvem Sauron que Tolkien fez, onde ele pintou o seu Deus de Chifres corrompido no meio de uma convulsão cataclísmica reminiscente de descrição profética do livro de Jó.

E aí Sauron pintado como uma versão negra do Deus de Chifres. Cumpre lembrar que Sauron é uma forma tardia do original em quenya Thauron, suspeitamente similar a Tauron, nome de Oromë. Isso faz pensar que Tolkien podia mesmo associar Sauron a uma figuração corrompida do Deus de Chifres, como muitos dados da sua história de fato indicam, como a "ferida que não cura" ( dedo decepado), suas diversas "mortes e ressurreições" sendo que uma delas ocorre dentro de uma floresta, acompanhado de um processo de corrupção da mesma.

Versão original de Neytiri.

Talvez não por acaso tenham colocado características de peixes abissais nessa pintura recente de Sauron como Senhor das Trevas

E olhem só esse último paralelo aqui

Cenarius , o filho da deusa Elune de Warcraft, o Senhor da Floresta

Jake Sully e as sementes da Árvore das Almas

A capa de Call me Joe, romance de Poul Anderson que parece ter sido a fonte mais provável para o conceito do avatar no filme de Cameron. A forma do "avatar" no livro era de um centauro assim como a forma física do Deus de Cfhifes de Warcraft. Interessante como as coisas se encaixam e como uma influência parece se sobrepõr à outra.

Vale aqui aludir ao fato de que Tolkien chamou Oromë, seu Deus de Chifres, de Tavros, "touro"em grego, mas significando Senhor da Floresta ou Florestador em élfico e que ele era o "espirito azul" que habitava as florestas. Nem um pouco parecido com Jake Sully e Cenarius não é mesmo? Agora vou ter que checar de onde vem essa noção de que Cernunnos era "azul".Tavros é também reminiscente da divindade gaulesa Tarvos Trigaranus, também conectada ao Deus de Chifres e ao deus criador Esus.

defined as the 'chief wood-fay, the Blue Spirit of the Woods'

A cor símbolo do Touro é o Azul ligado ao seu planeta regente Vênus.

Vale a pena comparar essa representação do touro celta acima com a de Malorn,o pai de Cenarius em Warcraft

Tavros será um personagem minoutauro no terceiro filme da série Narnia: A Jornada do Navio da Alvorada.

Então, parece ser mesmo o caso de que a cor azul de Jake Sully e de Oromë não é uma coincidência, ainda mais quando consideramos que a Deusa Neith do Egito, inspiração para o nome Neytiri, era, em algumas versões, a deusa vaca progenitora do Sol, Atum Re. Interessante ressaltar que antigos estudiosos do seculo XIX conectavama deusa Neith e sua etimologia com a da palavra Nevyy ou Nevydd, gaélica e galesa, que é similar a Na'vi, significando "sagrado" mas também tendo uma estranha similaridade com "nave".

C.S. Lewis e seus comentários sobre a influência mútua com Tolkien.

2010-02-14T04:12:00.000-08:00

Com certeza esse comentário já veio da época em que a amizade entre os dois tinha esfriado.

Influência teria se restringido a encorajamento moral e "fontes comuns?"

To a correspondent who thought he saw great similarities between the creative writings of Lewis and Tolkien and wondered about mutual influences, Lewis wrote, "I don't think Tolkien influenced me, and I am certain I didn't influence him. That is, I didn't influence what he wrote. My continued encouragement, carried to the point of nagging, influenced him very much to write at all with that gravity and at that length. In other words, I acted as a midwife, not as a father. The similarities between his work and mine are due, I think (a) To nature—temperament, (b) To common sources. We are both soaked in Norse mythology, Geo.MacDonald's fairytales, Homer, Beowulf, and medieval romance. Also, of course, we are both Christians (he, as R.C.)."56

I don't think so!

E o próprio Clyde Kilby que citou a ainda não publicada carta também falou a mesma coisa. E o Tolkien disse várias vezes que achava que Lewis tinha sido influenciado por ele.

Although Tolkien spoke to me warmly of his long and happy association with Lewis, he also sometimes found fault with him. He mentioned that Lewis "borrowed" from him. I pointed out that Lewis had acknowledged the borrowing of the word "Númenor," but Tolkien insisted there were unacknowledged "echoes" in Lewis. In a letter toJared C. Lobdell, Tolkien mentioned eldil as one example,also Tinidril as a composite of his Idril and Tinúviel.

It is inevitable that any three writers in close friendship who have read their works to each other, and read them open to criticism and suggestions for improvement,should have an influence on each other. What that influence amounted to is quite another matter. Lewis several times warned that the more specific the claim the more likely it was to be wrong. Our intention here has been simplyto identify the nature of the friendship.

Ai embaixo esta o comentario de Lewis sobre quais eram suas mitologias preferidas

O "Avatar" de um vilão da Disney

2010-02-13T08:45:00.000-08:00

É engraçado as coisas que a gente pode encontrar fuçando pela Internet. O coronel Quaritch, o vilão do Avatar de James Cameron é, de certa forma, um "avatar", uma versão reencarnada do vilão do Atlantis da Disney, que foi dublado , James Garner, oito anos antes. James Garner na sua versão rejuvenescida e animada era bem próximo mesmo com a atual caracterização do Quaritch interpretado por Stephen Lang

Gozado que o nome do meio do personagem "Tiberius" provavelmente foi colocado como uma homenagem às avessas para James Tiberius Kirk, o Capitão Kirk de Jornada nas Estrelas.

Bom saber que um vilão tão legal e um desenho animado tão cool aparentemente não passaram despercebidos aos olhos de Cameron durante a escolha do elenco para Avatar.

Atlantis só não deu certo como poderia porque foi prejudicada de um lado pelo abandono da forma clássica dos desenhos sanitizados da Disney, o formato musical conto de fadas e, por outro, pela limitação da duração imposta pro desenho. Um tema e uma ambientação dessas precisam de espaço pra "respirar"e isso só é possível em uma fita com mais de duas horas de duração. Claro que a polêmica sobre o susposto plágio em cima de Nadia não ajudou em nada mas isso não foi nenhum fator determinante para a performance decepcionante do desenho porque, afinal, se fosse mesmo o caso de plágio impedir sucesso onde é que a performance de Rei Leão iria parar? :-P.

Uma pena porque muito do World Building de Atlantis foi desperdiçado já que projetos spin-off que deveriam ter tocado a bola adiante não foram pra frente, coisas como a série Team Atlantis que devia ser a série animada derivada do longa metragem com participação do criador de Gárgulas, Gary Weismann.

Olhem só como é o efeito Roorschach, um vê as similaridades que estou apontando entre Atlantis e Avatar e as comparações parecem fundamentadas

Post #1
Juan wroteon December 20, 2009 at 7:36pm
Hey, Avatar fans... Did you notice that there are a lot of similarities between "Avatar" and Disney's "Atlantis: The lost empire"?
If you remember another one, just write it... I'm gonna write the ones that I found:
- The humans are in an unknown place (Pandora- Atlantis)
- The humans want to take advantage of the new discovery
- The protagonist becomes part of the native tribe (Avatar: Jake/ Atlantis: Milo)
- The native woman who fell in love with the protagonist (Avatar: Neytiri/ Atlantis:Kida)
- This woman is also an important member of the tribe, clan, etc.
- The latin woman who is in the side of the main character (Avatar: chopper pilot Trudy Chacón/ Atlantis: mechanic Audrey Ramírez)
- The use of a sort of plug to use "vehicles" (Avatar: Na'vi use a sort of gland from their hair/ Atlantis: Atlantians use a necklace crystal)
- The main character stays with the natives in the end
- The humans try to destroy the new world in both movies by bombing
- The main antagonist is a strong, 40-50 years old man.( Avatar:Colonel Miles Quaritch/ Atlantis: Comander Lyle Tiberius Rourke)

The next ones are yours... please continue with the list, I hope you'll find more...
Greetings from Colombia!!!

Outro já vê similaridades com Pocahontas e ambos estarão corretos.

E outro vê com Duna

Mas todos, também, estão parcialmente errados.

E por quê?

Porque comparações assim só mostram que o padrão dessas histórias é mesmo arquetípico, já virou clichê, uma forma de bolo há muito tempo.

Cameron nunca negou as influências de Pocahontas, Dança com Lobos e Fernygully mas os débitos de todas essas fontes com as outras que Cameron já creditou também não são mencionadas ou conhecidas pelo "povão". Rider Haggard, Rudyard Kipling e Edgar Rice Burroughs junto com James Fenimore Cooper foram os criadores dos modelos "emulados" pelos 3 filmes mencionados. Então, ladrão que rouba ladrão...

Walter de La Mare- The Three Mulla Mulgars e Tolkien

2010-02-10T08:19:00.000-08:00

Esse é o artigo de Vera Chapman publicado em Mythlore 28, desenvolvendo ( sem citar a fonte )a premissa de Lin Carter no seu livro sobre o Senhor dos Anéis: a possibilidade de que Tolkien leu o livro vastamente subcriativo de seu contemporâneo de La Mare e que ele possa ter sido parte inspiradora do Hobbit e de sua conexão com a mitologia do Silmarillion.

Impossivel não ver alguma similaridade nas sequências em que Frodo e Sam invocam o poder de Elbereth Gilthoniel via frasco de Galadriel com a interação entre os Mulla-Mulgars e a sua deusa, Tishnar, ajudando-os contra Immanala, seu próprio lado negro através da Pedra Maravilhosa (Wonder stone).

O livro e suas opções de download-Edição Ilustrada maravilhosa de 1919

Estudo sobre o livro

Dissertaçao sobre literatura infantil-The Child and the Serpent Star and Stone all one

Nausicaa and Dune: The intertwined worlds of Frank Herbert and Hayao Miyazaki

2010-02-09T14:40:00.000-08:00

Subject: 3.) NAUSICAA & DUNE (JAPANESE ANIMATION NEWS & REVIEW, 7/91)

The following article is reprinted from JAPANESE ANIMATION NEWS & REVIEW
(The Official Newsletter of Hokubei Anime-kai [North American Anime
Circle]) Vol. 1, #4 (July 1991), pages 4, 5 & the bottom 2/5 of page 10.

By David Moisan

Many readers of this fanzine have read Hayao Miyazaki's "Nausicaa of
the Valley of the Wind." As Miyazaki relates in Part 1 (Book 3, "On
Nausicaa," p. 48), Nausicaa was inspired by a 5th-century Japanese
princess who loved insects, and the girl of the same name that rescued
Odysseus in Homer's "Odyssey."

Many of you may also know Frank Herbert's "Dune," one of the great
masterpieces of science fiction. Ever since I saw the film version of
"Nausicaa," I have always wondered if Miyazaki took his inspiration from
Herbert's novel.

One wonders: how can a story about a desert planet, a galactic
empire and an emerging messiah be like a story about a toxic forest, the
remnants of humanity and a girl trying to understand her world and save
her kingdom? After reading both books, I've concluded that "Dune" was
indeed the catalyst for Miyazaki's work. (Note: I'm referring to the
graphic novel version of the story.)

Consider first the ecologies of the two stories. What impressed me
most about the stories is the sheer intensity of the portrayal of their
respective ecologies. Herbert's Arrakis is a desert planet almost devoid
of water; its inhabitants, the Fremen, wear stillsuits that recycle their
bodies' moisture. Water is life; water is wealth. The quest to conserve
water has driven the Fremen to become the greatest practicing ecologists
in the Imperium.

Compare this with Nausicaa's world: 1000 years after an apocalyptic
war (the Seven Days of Fire), Earth is buried under a great toxic forest
whose atmospheric exhalations are poisonous. An entire ecosystem has
evolved--giant insects roam the forest. The few humans which have
survived wear masks against the poisonous atmosphere and guard their soil
and water against poisonous spores. In the depths of the forest, a
tribe--the Forest People--has learned how to live with the forest and the
insects.

Arrakis has its "makers," huge sandworms that move through the
desert, devouring all in their path, including humans. Makers are part
of a complex ecological cycle that produces melange, that unique spice
that prolongs life and brings prescient visions and makes Arrakis the
richest planet in the empire.

Earth's toxic forests are home to the Ohmu, giant (100'+) 12-eyed,
sentient insects that also play an active role in their ecosystem; every
300 years, in the "Daikaisho" ("Great Wave of the Sea"), enraged Ohmu and
other forest insects thunder through human settlements in great herds.
The Ohmu then die from exhaustion, toxic plants sprout from their
corpses, and the forest expands its boundaries.

Furthermore, the forest is also changing. Gradually, the trees of
the jungle are absorbing the toxins in the soil and disintegrating,
leaving a desert with clean air. Both Yupa and Nausicaa have discovered
this, and both wonder about the implications.

Let's now turn to the people of "Nausicaa": in Miyazaki's Earth,
three groups predominate: the Dorok Principalities, the Torumekian Empire
and the Periphery, the small kingdoms (including Nausicaa's own, the
Valley of Wind) that were once part of Eftal. As mentioned earlier, the
Forest People live in the depths of the toxic jungle. The Torumekians
are at war against the Doroks, for reasons unexplained, and the Doroks
are waging an especially brutal counterattack. The Periphery tribes,
officially affiliated with Torumekia, are caught in the middle.

The Dorok Principalities have a ruling priesthood that is not unlike
the Bene Gesserit, adepts who could detect falsehood and control others
by the sound of their voice. Most tribal priests are telepathic, and
have other similar talents.

But the real power of the Doroks lies in their research on genetic
engineering, which plays a large role in Miyazaki's story. Remember the
Bene Tlielax from "Dune"--they were mercenary, amoral scientists who
didn't concern themselves with the consequences of their work as long as
they profited from it; they specialized in the creation of synthetic life
(like "twisted" Mentats, killer Suk Doctors and so on).

The Dorok scientists are just like that. There's a crucial scene in
Part 2 (Book 2, p. 41) where Charuka, the warrior-priest charged with
finding Nausicaa, is talking to one of them about a newly-developed spore
that is more poisonous than anything in the toxic forest, and gets a
reply that suggests that the scientists were not thinking of its possible
effects.

Indeed, this is borne out when one of the spores escapes from a
Dorok air-monitor and grows to an enormous size on the surface--putting
the entire Earth at risk!

Taking the place of the Imperium is the Torumekian Empire.
Actually, the Torumekian royal family has many of the attributes of House
Harkonnen: they are brutal fratricidists who've no compunctions about
turning family members against one another for personal gain. It helps
that the Vai Emperor, and the Three Princes all resemble the Baron in
physique! (Baron Karkonnen was that "floating fat man" who needed
suspensors to support his great weight.)

On the other hand, Princess Kushana, fourth daughter of the Emperor,
is quite different from her brothers. She is a brilliant tactician who
trained her army, the 3rd, into the finest of Torumekia in much the same
way that Duncan Idaho and Gurney Halleck trained the Duke's army.
Despite having been betrayed by her father and her brothers by having her
army stripped from her, she still maintains a great sense of honor and
integrity that Duke Leto might have understood--like his, her army's
loyalty to her is legendary.

There are further parallels--like the Fremen and the Forest People.
On Arrakis, the Fremen dream of making the planet green. Pardot Keynes,
the Imperial Planetologist, taught the Fremen about their planet's
ecology, and set into motion a plan that would make Arrakis green within
500 years. The Fremen are secretive about their plans--they bribe the
Spacing Guild to keep weather satellites from the skies. The Fremen are
underestimated and underrecognized by both House Harkonnen and the
Emperor, to their peril.

The Forest People have a similar history. During the last
Daikaisho, 300 years before the events in the story, they were subjects
of the Kingdom of Eftal, destroyed in a brutal civil war that sparked the
Daikaisho. They were led into the forest by the "blue-clad one," who
showed them how to survive there. One can easily imagine that the Doroks
and the Torumekians would have the same disregard for the Forest People
as House Harkonnen and the Emperor had for the Fremen.

They also seem secretive. When Yupa meets the Forest People for the
first time, he asks one of them, Selm, about the change in the forest:

"As the trees fossilize and crumble, the cavities should expand
upward from the roots of the forest. What happens when they reach the
surface? Please . . . tell us! It's been a thousand years since the
forest was formed--somewhere on this planet must be lands where it has
already happened." (Part 2, Book 2, p. 48)

Selm rebuffs him: "It is forbidden to speak of these things."

We now come to the real pivot of both stories: Nausicaa and Paul
Muad'Dib. Throughout Herbert's story, Paul Atreides struggled to learn
his true purpose, and we see him evolve from a naive son of a duke, dimly
aware of life's realities, into the Kwisatz Haderach, the man who can see
all realities, past, present and future. Paul glimpses his "terrible
purpose"--a jihad, and tries in vain to stop it. Paul, like his father,
has tremendous personal magnetism which he uses to unite the Fremen and
overthrow the Emperor.

Nausicaa apparently follows a similar path. Like Paul, she has an
uncanny ability to lead and direct; but, like Keynes, she is also one
with her environment, able to communicate with the Ohmu and the other
insects. Nausicaa has a talent much like the Voice, the Bene Gesserit
means of command.

Gradually, Nausicaa realizes that she has a purpose, though she
doesn't yet know what it is. At first, when the Torumekians order her to
war as the representative of the Valley, she's afraid, both of the war,
and of what she might herself do in anger--she killed a Torumekian
soldier with Kushana's search party at the beginning of the story. After
her encounter with the baby Ohmu in Part 1, Book 5, she becomes
determined to find her purpose.

There's something else: Herbert developed the concept of racial
memory; the Fremen are able, under controlled circumstances, to directly
experience the memories of their ancestors, aided by the Water of Life,
the exhalations of a drowned Maker. Paul uses the Water of Life to make
his final transformation into the Kwisatz Haderach.

As we've seen in "Nausicaa," the Ohmu are sentient and telepathic.
When Nausicaa is unconscious under the forest, an Ohmu speaks to her:
"Little One, our race has known of your coming since years gone by . . .
Our hearts speak across time and space . . ." (Part 1, Book 3, p. 22)
So, the Ohmu are telepathic and possibly prescient! Midway through the
story, the Dorok priest of the Mani tribe has a vision of the "Blue-Clad
One"--Nausicaa!! When the Forest People mention the "Blue-Clad One,"
Yupa wonders:

"Is the Blue-Clad One just the hope passed down by the aboriginal
Dorok religions based on an historical person? Or are they real people,
created by the very lifeforce of our species, *reaching across space and
time* in our moment of need . . . ?" (Part 2, Book 2, p. 50, emphasis
added)

It would seem that Miyazaki is headed for a conjunction of events
that is every bit as portentous as the final chapters in "Dune."
Whatever happens, like the Daikaisho, there'll be a wave like the one
that made Paul Muad'Dib Atreides into the Emperor of the galaxy. Of
course, there's much in "Dune" that is unlike "Nausicaa"--CHOAM, the
Great Houses, and the Spacing Guild are among many things that don't
appear in the story. Paul Atreides was brought up in a militaristic
feudal society; Nausicaa, in a peaceful agrarian society (the Valley of
Wind). Both are products of their respective societies. It's unlikely
that Paul and Nausicaa even have the same philosophy; Nausicaa probably
wouldn't want to be Emperor any more than Paul would want to study the
trees and the forest.

However, Miyazaki, like Herbert, understands the most important
principle behind ecology: the study of consequences. And he is, in his
own way, exploring the messianic impulse as Herbert did. Ecological
messianism is the "real" parallel between "Nausicaa" and "Dune." It's a
great example of literary cross-pollination--what a shame that Herbert
and Miyazaki will never meet! (Frank Herbert died of cancer in 1987.)

END

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